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| IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games. |
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#1
02-23-2011, 06:31 PM
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First, those scenarios have never been done before. Second, the overall superiority of the Luftwaffe in these campaigns (questionable for the France campaign anyway) does not mean every single engagement was completely one-sided. There were more than a few losses over Poland as well. Especially bomber or Stuka campaigns should be more interesting here than over England. Flying for Poland would certainly be a challenge, but that only makes it more interesting for me. And would anyone say that late-war scenarios shouldn't be done either because of the undisputed allied superiority? Third, I have no interest in "balance" in the planeset, and while the BoB scenario is reasonably balanced in the fighters area, flying Stukas or Bf-110s over England, especially in somewhat historical roles, isn't any less suicidal than attacking German bombers over Poland. And finally, similar arguments were brought up before Il2's release about the Eastern front theatre. It turned out to be more than interesting though. I do hope eventually some 3rd party effort can be made to model those theatres, as I don't see Oleg himself being able to afford it. Sure would be great though...! 
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#2
02-23-2011, 10:38 PM
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But that's irrelevant, cos' it's about axis having superior aircraft. Quote:
Late at war allies had air superiority, but german planes were not inferior to their counterparts. If your plane is good and fast you can engage numerically superior force. It will work on-line too. But imagine a mission where you have to intercept the incoming bomber formation. You approach them head-on, fire a burst into one of them, turn and see them far away and yourself being unable to chase them cos' your fighter is slower than these bombers. I can't imagine a good and entertaining '39 fighter campaign for polish air forces. It would be stuka and recon aircraft pounding and avoiding enemy fighters at all cost. Bomber campaign would be more reasonable, but still hard fighting for survival. And what about multi? Who would fly polish aircraft? Poles and few hard-core players from other countries? These kind of campaigns could be made by 3rd parties, although I doubt that polish modding scene of this sim will be huge enough to make, lets say 4 flyables and 6 non-flyables from scratch. But time will tell. I personally hope for north africa '41-'42.
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#3
02-23-2011, 11:04 PM
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I cannot understand why anyone would want a Polish or French addon.
They were both stomped into the dust... in record time. It was like take off and die for the Polish and French pilots. So... a sad part of history, nevertheless there can still be those who want to enough historical abuse. LOL Probably just as well for the air war to progress from BOB into the Western European battles and war. The "island" was a major deployment area for the war after BOB.
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#4
02-24-2011, 12:53 AM
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The developers will probably never do a commercial Early France or Poland, because there isn't enough interest and/or dollars, but third parties were doing just that early in the BOB SOW development. They probably folded because of BOB's delays, but that shows there is enough interest with 3rd parties to develop the addon.
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#5
02-24-2011, 01:26 AM
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If you want more "crap" planes, like I do, then the Sino-Japanese conflict from 1937 to just before the AVG era would be a great way to go.
The Curtiss Hawk 75, I-16, and A5M would be uber planes in that scenario. It would be heaven.
__________________
 Personally speaking, the P-40 could contend on an equal footing with all the types of Messerschmitts, almost to the end of 1943. ~Nikolay Gerasimovitch Golodnikov
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#6
02-24-2011, 01:30 AM
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The so called "massively inferior and out of date" state of the Polish armed forces was initially just German propaganda and it then became convenient for the Allies to allow that false impression to continue as it helped allied morale to think that Poland had collapsed because of an "out of date poorly led army". Another myth was the cavalry charges against tanks. It never happened. What the Polish did have was very effective mobile anti tank units with anti tank guns that moved to new positions through rough terrain on horseback. The myth has been perpetuated by Hollywood who like us to think that everyone in WWII was hopeless and useless except the US. German Quartermaster General’s reports admitted the loss of 258 planes throughout the Polish Campaign. You can probably add to that another 100 or more damaged so severely as to need virtual rebuilding or not acknowledged directly as lost to enemy action. A good estimate is around 350 Luftwaffe aircraft were lost all together over 6 weeks or so in Poland. Of those 350 around 120-150 were shot down in air to air combat. The rest were destroyed on the ground or shot down by AAA. That compares VERY favorably with the 1100 the RAF managed down over the entire battle of Britain. Note that the Polish airforce was still flying and active from secret airbases right up to the time the Russians invaded and the country surrendered. Up until the Russians invaded the Poles fought on hoping the British and French would grow a brain and realise teh entire German forces were occupied in the East and mount an invasion of Germany . If they had WWII might have been avoided. Last edited by WTE_Galway; 02-24-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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#7
02-24-2011, 01:43 AM
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+1 to what WTE_Galway said.
I would also add that Luftwaffe losses in the Battle of France were 30% higher than the Germans estimated they would be.
__________________
Personally speaking, the P-40 could contend on an equal footing with all the types of Messerschmitts, almost to the end of 1943. ~Nikolay Gerasimovitch Golodnikov
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#8
02-24-2011, 03:55 AM
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What planes were the Polish Airforce getting the kills in? My understanding was the most modern fighter they had at the time was the PZL P.11, and that the retractable gear designs never reached production. I'll grant you, if you get into a turnfight with a PZL you can get yourself shot down pretty quickly, and the P.11 is around the same speed as the unloaded Stuka, but it's not something I would consider a reasonable match against a 109E.
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#9
02-24-2011, 04:32 AM
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Despite the fact that online IL2 servers consist mainly of fighter versus fighter combat its unlikely much of the air to air combat consisted of PZL P11 turn fighting Emils  Here you go, some details: Quote:
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#10
02-24-2011, 06:22 AM
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I am also against too much early war stuff like poland. What's so interesting about it? It's short and it's unbalanced. Even for offliners, what's the challange fighting against p11 when you have a 109? Or the other way around: what's so interesting in fighting a far supperior ennemy?
It would also be an extremly short campaign, both online and offline. I think that, for these reasons, the few ressources should be put in some other fronts
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