Durability of aircraft to MG (< 8mm) guns

[winny]

The main cause for the majority of the holes in German bombers was simple ball ammo. RAF fighters usually had 3 or 4 guns with ball ammo 1 or 2 with AP.

The problem, as someone already said, is that the bullets would deflect or start to tumble and not hit at the correct angle. Only a quarter of the armour piercing rounds fired into the Blenheim reached the armoured plate and hardly any penetrated it.

The same round fired straight at a 12mm armoured plate (8mm thicker than the Blenheims) from the same distance (180m) penetrated the armour 100% of the time. Airframe makes a huge difference.

The Germans knew that AP rounds were ineffective against bombers and they eventually removed them from the ammo belts, except for specialised missions.

[Chivas]

I doubt very much the developers will nerf the cannons and uber the smaller calibers. There is a huge difference in the damage model of IL-2 and COD. The days of shot up fighters staying and being effective in a fight are over. With the new damage model every system on the aircraft can be damaged or destroyed. Pilots will be bailing out or trying to find a way out of the fight as quickly as possible, because the aircraft will no longer be effective.

[GnigruH]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I doubt very much the developers will nerf the cannons and uber the smaller calibres.

Slight boost here, small nerf there - this could happen.
Although I agree that with many things to damage, spraying a burst of small calibre rounds over a target could be effective.

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it, when you hit someone with a single round, he would either loose his wing, loose his rear fuselage, have his engine on fire or crumble into dozens of small triangles.
AFAIK this is not like it should be.

In CoD it will be possible to load each gun with different ammo, so I look forward to experiment a little .

[swiss]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it,

that was either some time ago, or a Mk108.
If it was the latter, the effect on fighter is ok.

If I remember correctly, in RL it only took 5 hits to bring down a B17 - and that is one huge mofo.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Slight boost here, small nerf there - this could happen.
Although I agree that with many things to damage, spraying a burst of small calibre rounds over a target could be effective.

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it, when you hit someone with a single round, he would either loose his wing, loose his rear fuselage, have his engine on fire or crumble into dozens of small triangles.
AFAIK this is not like it should be.

In CoD it will be possible to load each gun with different ammo, so I look forward to experiment a little .

I agree it will be much more interesting fighting in the Cliffs of Dover.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting. The smaller calibers can also be very devastating too when you fire at your convergence setting. I find most sim pilots are not very good shots and some don't completely understand convergence or deflection shooting.

[Erkki]

Probably all weapons will generally be more lethal, but less de-wings/de-tailings... Remember a cannon HE shell going off isnt just the pressure damage, but also shrapnel. A HE round in the wing tip may result in a shrapnel in the pilots head... Or in the engine, cooling system etc.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I agree it will be much more interesting fighting in the Cliffs of Dover.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting. The smaller calibers can also be very devastating too when you fire at your convergence setting. I find most sim pilots are not very good shots and some don't completely understand convergence or deflection shooting.

It's a real matter of luck I've noticed, some times they just absorb the 30mm rounds like nothing happend, other times they explode on the first hit, also deflection shooting really increases that chance of a 1 hit kill.

[WTE_Galway]

Just a small snapshot to keep the whole 30mm versus 0.50 cal thing in perspective ....

[GnigruH]

Impressive, but is this the way to prove that they should de-wing instantly?

Also in this whole cannon vs mg discussion you should take into account the rof of weapons which used this ammo.
You fired two cannon rounds. How many rounds 8 mgs fired in the same time period?

that was either some time ago, or a Mk108

Some time ago.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting.

My comment was about single engine aircraft.

[Flying Pencil]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Just a small snapshot to keep the whole 30mm versus 0.50 cal thing in perspective ....

Some excellent info on the effectiveness of those weapons:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gus...n/fgun-pe.html

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/show...mp-Machineguns.