Freetrack interface use in IL-2:CoD

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

Freetrack has the CRAP TIR interface, the old one, because GAME DEVS DON'T USE FREETRACK INTERFACE IN ALL GAMES!

It's clear ENOUGH for you? And I go further: they don't use Freetrack interface, they dont give an OPEN 6DOF HT solution and EVEN CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE SUBJECT because of NP sick trying to keep a marketing that they clearly see will lose, because any decent today CPU and cheap webcam can provide very good HT experience.

NP can close, I don't care! I care about how I spend MY MONEY in a CPU, MY MONEY in a webcam, mount some led assembly and have all the hardware to have 6DOF HT.

But I need that the game devs put suport for the FREE Fretrack interface, that's have NOTHING TO DO WITH TIR INTERFACE into their games!

BIS devs made it! They have the GUTS to do that! If some company can't survive into market without all this FEAR of a small free software, that uses cheap webcams, its a CRAP company, I'm sorry to said.

It's pathetic... And people still talking nonsense about NP products, policies... They sell cheap IR webcams and mediocre software for HT based on IR detection, by God sake! It's TRIVIAL!!!

This community makes me a little sick. In BIS forums the suport for Freetrack was MASSIVE, even with NP trolls... Here, the community is weak, and maybe the sells prediced with IL-2:CoD made the devs trying to make some cash from "other" sources...

I don't give a crap anymore. If Oleg put Freetrack interface suport in IL-2:CoD, will be good. If not, maybe W-R have more "workarounds" to curse, because the Freetrack community is light years away form mediocre NP.

Simple as that! Bye!

I support alternatives too, but just chill out already. You're doing more damage than good.

And no, i i don't want NP to close because i have tried both FT and trackIR and for me trackIR was smoother and better. If NP closes i'll be stuck with the alternative solutions, however if NP stays in business and has to compete with the open source/free trackers, it's better for everyone: you can use FT with native support, i can use NP because either they will make an even better trackIR or they will start selling cheaper to stay in business..

Sorry mate, but sometimes your one-dimensional arguments are just as bad as those used by the people you are screaming against.


On the other hand, W-R you are dragging this poll the way of the other thread. Please stick to debating how it works there, where we all tried multiple times to explain to you how it works and yet you either refuse to understand or we're having some massive communication breakdown along the way...see my latest post in the other thread where i try to explain it in layman's terms by comparing apples and bananas (yes, it's come to using such simplistic examples because we're apparently having a massive communication issue).

If you want a short explanation, it's this:

Originally Posted by julian265

Windows game controller axes do not need any NP software to interface with. Allowing anyone to control head axes with any game controller is absolutely not a hack, and absolutely not sponging of anyone's copyright or hard work:
1. Head control in games is under no-ones copyright (ie mouse/POV hat/whatever device moving the in-game head).
2. The method that windows game controllers use to interface with games is a Microsoft thing, nothing to do with NP.

I suppose you'll now tell me that the sky is red?

[Wolf_Rider]

If you want to point the finger at someone else, Blackdog... take note of in which direction the other three fingers are pointing
Some just aren't falling for your sophistry and you could probably do well to err, chill out yourself.
Now, I asked a very simple question, which I thought may have helped their FT cause... too bad it didn't and did irrepairable damage instead, considering the calls made were FT no longer uses TIR.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

If you want to point the finger at someone else, Blackdog... take note of in which direction the other three fingers are pointing
Some just aren't falling for your sophistry and you could probably do well to err, chill out yourself.
Now, I asked a very simple question, which I thought may have helped their FT cause... too bad it didn't and did irrepairable damage instead, considering the calls made were FT no longer uses TIR.

Ok, you like to keep hearing it, so i will oblige and since you like going philosophical about it, let's also touch a bit on how you structure your arguments.

On the technical side of things, FT doesn't use the TIR implementation to track the dots, it makes your computer think it uses NP code when it's not: it reads the movements with its own interface posted here in this threa, then it has to parse them into the game. If the game doesn't support alternative trackers a user can make the game think it's trackIR so it can parse the data.

It's as simple as can be really. It's not trackIR, your computer thinks it is.

I don't know why you keep making the jump from "my PC thinks this is X" to "it thinks this is X, so that makes it true".

You've been given complex explanations, simple explanations, calm replies, offensive replies, the whole nine yards, by a variety of posters. And since i don't think you're mentally incapable of grasping the meaning of what's been said, i'll chalk it up to grasping at straws in order to not accept the explanation. Sorry, you've left me no alternative here.


Also, another thing you keep bringing up is that whenever someone uses an analogy to illustrate a point, you will invariably go "we are not talking about joysticks/AGP ports/other peripherals, but about trackIR and webcams". Maybe because if we draw the parallels it would mean that just as your line of reason implies an associated license fee for using other hardware for a similar purpose (again, this is against US copyright law if the hardware is up to the job), it would also make it reasonable for microsoft to ask a fee from everyone who makes peripherals for windows systems, NP included.

Sorry, but you either apply the same standards to everyone or not at all. If FT or any other head-tracker must pay NP to do the same job with different hardware and software, then NP must also pay the guys who came up with a movable camera in a 3d cockpit in the first place. Isn't NP mooching off the idea of a 3d cockpit by taking the basic idea and adding their own stuff on top of it? Not from where i'm standing, but definitely so according to the way you present it. Like i said, double standards won't fly.

This is all a very simple argumentative tactic on your part really. No offence at all, i'm just calling them as i see them and you're entitled to use whatever trick in the book to push your opinion, that's the meaning of any discussion forum as long as we're civil to each other. Just be prepared to be called out on it if the tactic is completely see through

Step 1: Strongly deny all kinds of explanation that back anything non-favorable to your point of view
Step 2: Since you are denying all explanation, you then make the silent, implied jump that there isn't one
Step 3: Ask for an expanation
Step 4: Go back to step 1 and repeat as necessary.

This creates tension, drives the moderate posters away, maybe even invites a mod to close the thread and generally makes the topic at hand a painful experience to discuss and debate. The objective is then accomplished: people don't want to talk about it or have it cluttering their boards, so the unfavorable opinion is nipped in the bud before it gains momentum. And you think i'm the one who's into sophistry

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

On the other hand, W-R you are dragging this poll the way of the other thread.

where are your other three fingers pointing, Blackdog?


also sport... explain this - 2nd check box down from the top

Originally Posted by julian265

Interfaces available - also key output on next tab.

Latest version, 2.2.0.279

PPJoy becomes available when you have it installed. It is my preferred method, but I'm on a different computer so it's greyed out.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

also sport... explain this - 2nd check box down from the top

I explain clearly to you how the FIRST BOX DOWN FROM THE TOP works...

We just have the second because game devs don't suport the first one.

If you like to see the second one vanish, just suport the inclusion of Freetrack interface into new titles!

I'm tired of all this crap, really. That's the way NP do business...

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

i have tried both FT and trackIR and for me trackIR was smoother and better.

+1, and not just a bit.

Hooked up my TIR5 yesterday, and I must say, the product more than just surprised me.
I hate to say it, as I was really fond of my FT cap, but the TIR is just too damn sexy.

I felt perfectly comfortable from the the first second. They supply 3 default settings, one of them felt pretty close to my customized FT setup.

The major difference is: If you play around in the tir software you can achieve same results which previously took you upwards 2hrs in FT.
And it feels much, much more stable, not to mention the precision.
It really is an awesome product.
But then again, that's what I expect from a professional solution.

Conclusion:
I don't regret I went for FT first; I learned a great deal about leds and also improved my soldering skills, so it sure was fun.
If I had to decide again, however, I'm not sure if would go the same path a second time.
FT wasn't free either, and the hours I spent building and adjusting it is a midrange, two digit number.
Hint: If you go for TIR, try to find used one and please don't forget to ask the the seller for serial number, as TIR5 #152000-152914 are lemons.

[Wolf_Rider]

That's a consistent appraisal common everywhere

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

That's a consistent appraisal common everywhere

Yep. I never believed it though.
(or didn't want to)

[albx]

Can please explain me the 17 voters against including freetrack in CoD what have to do with TIR? is because they feel pissed off that somebody can use the same kind of device at a fraction of TiR cost? or what?

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

where are your other three fingers pointing, Blackdog?


also sport... explain this - 2nd check box down from the top

I already told you, numerous times in fact. Emulating/simulating an interface with different software and hardware doesn't equal using it, just like simulating northrop grumman aircraft in pacific fighters was not the same as building and selling real ones, but that didn't prevent NG from asking Oleg Maddox a ton of money to let him include them in the sim (something everyone agrees was stupid on NG's part).

You just can't or won't wrap your mind around it, so it's a clear waste of my time to have another go. Please don't take this the wrong way as i harbor no ill will against you just for having your opinion, but i have no interest whatsoever in convincing you personally. My interest was in advocating alternatives for the community, because some people obviously use them and this levels the playing field and creates more competition for me when flying online.

I honestly don't believe you are a NP "public relations/damage control" spokesperson who's getting paid to do this, you just have your opinion and i'm fine with that. That being said, you sure do have an axe to grind with FT, just like Lobi has an axe to grind with NP. I think you two are not that different even if you advocate opposing points, but all this "passion for the cause" just clouds your judgment and you both miss the bigger picture sometimes.

I don't care what it's called, i just want a generic head tracking interface as an alternative and guess what, i will still buy a new trackIR set when i scrape the cash together. I just won't have to fly blind in the meantime.

My aim in all of this was to make sure other opinions get some exposure too and we as a whole have more options to choose from, but all this polarization is sure making it harder to look at things in a level-headed way.

Nevertheless, even if people have issues with FT they still voted for it and the interpretation is clear: more and more of us want an alternative form of head tracking. That's regardless of the details and the feud between FT and NP.
We can all argue until we're blue in the face about how NP restricts competition or not, or how FT is a hack tool or isn't, but that doesn't change the meaning of the poll one bit. The cat's out of the bag in regards to CoD headtracking and that's all there is to it at the end of the day.

So, the next logical step is to ask the devs to include the function in a patch, or as part of the SDK that will be available after launch. I think it's time to wrap this one up and do just that, ask for the feature.