Head Tracking with Cliffs of Dover

[GHarris]

I initially thought that Wolf_Rider's posts were genuine questions. But by the time I came to write my post on the 10th page I suspected he was just trolling on Naturalpoint's behalf.

His response to my post removed any doubt from my mind. He deliberately ignored my first statement: that discussions of how Freetrack has been used with other games are not relevant to the question of whether Freetrack should be supported in this sim, so long as there is a legal, open source Freetrack SDK available for use by sim developers... which would be used if Freetrack support were implemented in CoD.

His actions in this thread are the very definition of "FUD".

He asks for a description of how Freetrack's open source SDK works. Can anyone be bothered to write one for him? Seriously? If they did, he would just obfuscate or ask questions which deliberately "misunderstand" (or outright ignore) what was written. And continue to vaguely assert that Naturalpoint has been vaguely ripped off somehow.

And besides, the source code is freely available. If Wolf_Rider wants to understand how Freetrack works he can download it and take a look.

We live in a society where we are considered innocent until proven guilty. If Wolf_Rider, or Naturalpoint, or anyone else wishes to claim that Freetrack breaks the law, or infringes patents or copyrights, they are free to produce evidence to support such a claim. Indeed, if Naturalpoint has a legitimate grievance it is able to take legal action which would shut the Freetrack project down and obtain financial compensation. I have no idea why Naturalpoint would not have done this - as it would be entirely in the company's interest to do so - other than because they don't have any evidence.

If Naturalpoint, who are a company out to make a profit on selling TrackIR, were unable to demonstrate that their competition acts illegally (on account of it... er... not being true - how jolly inconvenient for these entitled-to-a-profit businessmen!), I suspect that they would spread precisely the kind of FUD we are seeing in this thread and elsewhere. Just ask vaguely insulting questions rather than offer answers, that's the trick! "When did you stop beating your wife", etc. etc.

[Wolf_Rider]

as mentioned earlier, the download link draws up a site's security certificate warning from my A/V, GHarris.
Always asked was "how does the INTERFACE work?"

Always stated was if the FT uses its own software and doesn't draw from any other company's software against thier wishes, I don't have a problem with that.

In the software (manual) however is a section tick box to select TIR interface, which means the FT draws from another's interface (software) This http://forum.free-track.net/index.ph...ic=1560&page=1 admittedly, is from 2009, but take a special note of post #7 and #11

you are also, as others have done, confused between copyright and patent, they are two different items.

now GHarris, its quite obvious that you and your two mates before you have no base for your points... so now the insults start well, knock yourself out. Let's see if you can outdo Blaster.

[robtek]

Here is a excerpt of the Freetrack Homepage:

FreeTrack can output head tracking data directly using TrackIR™, SimConnect and FSUIPC interfaces, programs that support these interfaces are regarded as having FreeTrack support. General input devices can also be emulated, specifically mouse, keyboard, and joystick (via PPJoy).

Seems to be that FT is still using NP software.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by robtek

Here is a excerpt of the Freetrack Homepage:

Bro, it's not like this is gonna stop him.

[Korn]

Originally Posted by GHarris

I initially thought that Wolf_Rider's posts were genuine questions. But by the time I came to write my post on the 10th page I suspected he was just trolling on Naturalpoint's behalf.

Yup exactly my thoughts.


Anyway. Cutting deals with publishers in order to remove the competition IS illegal. That's what anti-trust laws are for. Just a few years ago Intel ate a 1 billion euro fine from the European Commission for making deals with the likes of HP, Dell and other integrators so that they will not use AMD parts. In the US they just settled with nVidia and will be paying them 1.46 billion USD, after they just payed AMD (in the US, after a Federal Trade Commission settlement) 1.26 billion USD.

More info (chronological):
AMD and Intel Settle Their Differences
Intel Settles With the Federal Trade Commission
Intel Settles With NVIDIA: More Money, Fewer Problems, No x86

So, to sum things up:
- Natural Point has made and is still making deals with publishers in order to not allow any other head tracking devices to work in those respective games;
- while this may sound as legitimate bussiness practice, it is in fact a monopolistic behaviour and illegal in the European Union as well as in the United States, as exemplified above.


As i said in another thread, the reason Natural Point does not have (as yet) any legal problems as a consequence of these issues is the fact that they are activating inside a very young, small, niche market, a market with low visibility and they haven't come (yet!) under scrutiny.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Korn

- Natural Point has made and is still making deals with publishers in order to not allow any other head tracking devices to work in those respective games;

cutting out the competition... anti-trust laws? I totally agree

as for the quote.. that's a rather loud accusation you're making there, do you have anything you can back that accusation up with?

[swiss]

Antitrust - competition?
FT is opensource, to operate in a market you'd have to make money by selling your product.
FT is more like a club than a company.

Imho none those arguments are valid.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by swiss

Antitrust - competition?
FT is opensource, to operate in a market you'd have to make money by selling your product.
FT is more like a club than a company.

Imho none those arguments are valid.

I'd agree that none of those arguments are vaild as well, Swiss

But I believe Korn was talking about NP, not FT

[Korn]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

cutting out the competition... anti-trust laws? I totally agree

as for the quote.. that's a rather loud accusation you're making there, do you have anything you can back that accusation up with?

I'm making no accusation, i'm simply stating the facts as i know them. Bohemia Interactive had such a deal with Natural Point, as stated as one of their guys on the official forums and as it was well known inside the community. Their forums were also haunted by a bunch of trolls and even NP employees extremely vocal and aggressive when there was any Free Track talking. They went away when BI shut down the deal and included Free Track support with a patch last year.
Natural Point has another such deal with Eagle Dynamics (LOMAC & DCS developer and publisher), however i got to be honest, i don't know if either part has admited to that (it is possible they did, i don't read their forums much).

The Bohemia Interactive story is easy to check. And everybody knows about the other one, just ask... I'm sure there are others, but i don't know anything about the driving sims, maybe someone else is more knowledgeable.

[Wolf_Rider]

Korn, no, you made an accusation... let's be clear about that and you made a loud noise about anti-trust... all that is rather serious and what you've come up with is hearsay to back it.

you might recall the bohemia experience was the equivalent of a bunch of "boys" (in support of FT) bursting in through the, door, smashing glass, turning over tables and slapping the women. It was when it was learned that FT had not approached those developers in any manner, that the situation sort of quietened down. Bohemia forum went through a horrible time until then.

Perhaps you could check was to whether DCS made their own interface for other trackers to use or used NP's SDK to create it. If they used the SDK, then NP was (I assume) well within their rights to insist anything created from it not be used.