Tactics for Cliffs of Dover.

[Ernst]

Most Germans loses were Bomber aircraft badly escorted by fighter lacking of fuel endurance. Obviously, radar helped, British could concentrate their attacks in defenseless germans bombers. But when fighter gone against fighter the fight was very well matched, not the Turkey shot some were saying. It ll be not surprise if many just not come home crash landing in the Channel by no fuel, not destroyed by RAF.

If we consider Africa and Malta were the conditions were much more equal the Luftwaffe had the edge. At Afrika and Malta the 109 performed better than the spitfire. After USAAF and massive long range fighters take the edge.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Ernst

But when fighter gone against fighter the fight was very well matched, not the Turkey shot some were saying.

Yes the fighers were well matched. Pilot stories all say the fighters were well matched. Can you quote where someone said this was a tukey shoot (or words to that effect), because we know that wasn't the case. A lot of the pilot losses are down to the fact that when the RAF bailed over Britain, they weren't captured, and British fighters had 1 pilot in them, vs several airmen in a German bomber. With that in mind though, the RAF shot down more German aircraft because of better tactics. One annoying thing for red pilots in IL2 is the lack of ammunition in Spits, but this wasn't such a problem in real life, because pilots don't tend to shoot down 5 opponents per sortie in real life.

It ll be not surprise if many just not come home crash landing in the Channel by no fuel, not destroyed by RAF.

I'd give them more credit to be able to read their instruments than that (unless they've been shot and had a fuel leak).

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Yes the fighers were well matched. Pilot stories all say the fighters were well matched. Can you quote where someone said this was a tukey shoot (or words to that effect), because we know that wasn't the case. A lot of the pilot losses are down to the fact that when the RAF bailed over Britain, they weren't captured, and British fighters had 1 pilot in them, vs several airmen in a German bomber. With that in mind though, the RAF shot down more German aircraft because of better tactics. One annoying thing for red pilots in IL2 is the lack of ammunition in Spits, but this wasn't such a problem in real life, because pilots don't tend to shoot down 5 opponents per sortie in real life.

I'd give them more credit to be able to read their instruments than that (unless they've been shot and had a fuel leak).

I give them credit, but manage your aircraft in such hostile enviroment and flying in the endurance limits is not so simple.


The fuel comsuption it is not a very clear and fixed variable, if you need to operate at combat RPM for a longer time maybe you ll not have fuel to RTB. A certain amount could give you 20 minutes or 30 minutes more depending on your engine RPM. In battle bad things happen, even you were not shot (malfunction, lose of orientation, if you fly wrong route for only little time etc). If you are near home, you just land. If you are far from home opsss. And considering luftwaffe fighters were flying in their limits, sometimes things get worse.

[Abbeville-Boy]

Originally Posted by Ernst

I give them credit, but manage your aircraft in such hostile enviroment and flying in the endurance limits is not so simple.


The fuel comsuption it is not a very clear and fixed variable, if you need to operate at combat RPM for a longer time maybe you ll not have fuel to RTB. A certain amount could give you 20 minutes or 30 minutes more depending on your engine RPM. In battle bad things happen, even you were not shot (malfunction, lose of orientation, if you fly wrong route for only little time etc). If you are near home, you just land. If you are far from home opsss. And considering luftwaffe fighters were flying in their limits, sometimes things get worse.

you have good understandings

[JG52Uther]

I think its in Steinhilpers book that he talks about many 109 pilots coming down in the channel due to running out of fuel,something like 16 or so (guessing,can't quite remember,but it was a lot) in one day,with most of the pilots drowning.
This is another thing,surely the RAF planes should have a heavier fuel load than the LW fighters?
A 109 should be just around the 50% mark when it gets to the combat area.
So RAF boys,what do you do? Carry a full tank and hope you don't meet a 109 with 50% fuel, or take off with 50% and hope you don't run out and have to land before we turn up...
Will make for some strategic flying on a realistic server!

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I think its in Steinhilpers book that he talks about many 109 pilots coming down in the channel due to running out of fuel,something like 16 or so (guessing,can't quite remember,but it was a lot) in one day,with most of the pilots drowning.
This is another thing,surely the RAF planes should have a heavier fuel load than the LW fighters?
A 109 should be just around the 50% mark when it gets to the combat area.
So RAF boys,what do you do? Carry a full tank and hope you don't meet a 109 with 50% fuel, or take off with 50% and hope you don't run out and have to land before we turn up...
Will make for some strategic flying on a realistic server!

Well that is where some flyable seaplanes would come handy to pick up downed airmen out of the drink. The Do 24 did a lot of SAR missions.

[JG52Uther]

Yes,but those dastardly RAF types used to hunt the rescue planes,and I don't think the people flying CoD will take any notice of the red cosses either!

[Xilon_x]

because the fuel ended?
had not previously done a good briefing?
do not calculate how much fuel could he do?
maybe there were losses caused by bullet holes.

[David603]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I think its in Steinhilpers book that he talks about many 109 pilots coming down in the channel due to running out of fuel,something like 16 or so (guessing,can't quite remember,but it was a lot) in one day,with most of the pilots drowning.
This is another thing,surely the RAF planes should have a heavier fuel load than the LW fighters?
A 109 should be just around the 50% mark when it gets to the combat area.
So RAF boys,what do you do? Carry a full tank and hope you don't meet a 109 with 50% fuel, or take off with 50% and hope you don't run out and have to land before we turn up...
Will make for some strategic flying on a realistic server!

If it takes you 50% of your fuel to reach the area of combat then how are you going to get home after fighting?

I'm thinking it will be more like Bf109's on 60-70% fuel and Spitfires and Huricanes on 70-80% fuel if the fight takes place over England. Over the Channel this would be reversed, since the RAF fighters would have further to fly.

[JG52Uther]

I won't be fighting,I'll be running
Actually you won't find me,as I'll be hedge hopping on the way to Kenley with some presents...