I Want my 4.09 Spit FM's back.........

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why are you laughing, are you not interested in having accurate modelled planes in the game you play? Presumably you're not commenting on the accuracy of the flight model, since you only fly axis planes and wouldn't know much about how the allied planes fly. Those of us that fly both allied and axis planes like them to be as well modelled as is sensible in a game.

The Spit wasn't modelled correctly at all before 4.10m anyway. Magic E-Retention, 90° turns in less than one sec at 500 kph, no overheating, ability to keep dogfighting even if full of lead.... The examples are countless. Now at least, they are more close to real physics.

BTW, I fly the 110 for already 4 years now, neraly exclusively. You sure need a lot of trim to have it fly level, and also to counter the torque of he engines. I got used to that. I think Spitfire pilots will just have to learn that too now.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Wutz

Depends what some define as accurate.....with some one has the feeling they read too many fantasy comics or are spoiled by Hollywood.

Indeed, and that goes for all planes. The OP has simply said they don't like the new handling, and an axis only flyer thinks that's funny, which I don't really understand.

Originally Posted by SEE

Bloody hell guys, I doubt anyone here has ever flown a Spitty or BF to say categorically wether the FM is accurate or not.

I doubt the programmers have ever flown one either. They have to base their decisions on a lot of the same information that some of the people here have access to.

It's simply a discussion about the differences between 4.09 and 4.10. Some people feel that the changes are for the better and others feel that may be they are not quite correct. People are free to express their views but it is infortunate that some threads just seem to decend into a war of words rather than be informative with a bit of witty banter thrown in for good measure.

Yes I agree. It's interesting to see what people think of the flight modelling of all the planes. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone who likes the game thinks it's laughable than people dislike the flight modelling of a plane that the axis pilot never flies.

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

The Spit wasn't modelled correctly at all before 4.10m anyway. Magic E-Retention, 90° turns in less than one sec at 500 kph, no overheating, ability to keep dogfighting even if full of lead.... The examples are countless. Now at least, they are more close to real physics.

I've always had more luck continuing to fight after being shot when in a 109 or 190. I've found the Spit a lot more fragile the the German fighters.

BTW, I fly the 110 for already 4 years now, neraly exclusively.

So how are you in a good position to compare the modelling of different fighters?

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Indeed, and that goes for all planes. The OP has simply said they don't like the new handling, and an axis only flyer thinks that's funny, which I don't really understand.

I doubt the programmers have ever flown one either. They have to base their decisions on a lot of the same information that some of the people here have access to.

Yes I agree. It's interesting to see what people think of the flight modelling of all the planes. It just doesn't make sense to me that someone who likes the game thinks it's laughable than people dislike the flight modelling of a plane that the axis pilot never flies.

I've always had more luck continuing to fight after being shot when in a 109 or 190. I've found the Spit a lot more fragile the the German fighters.
So how are you in a good position to compare the modelling of different fighters?

Look I am one of the guys who don't care if the plane if 5km/h faster than the real plane and so on: I'm perfectly aware that the margin of error of 5% is good enough.

But I'm one of those who likes to review the airplanes flying them in battle environments; I fled Spitfire a lot in training sessions and to balance online missions.
I become a Oleg's Spit-hater because of the great differences between this kind of plane and the other in IL2 (above all his counterparts). The Spitfires were incredible.

Then I think you have to understand if some pilots who really has resigned themself to fly a wierd Fw190 (the "bar" is only the peak of the iceberg in that plane, you'll see) now they find "relaxing" that the plane of their nightmare has been tuned down. After years of "luftwhiners" name calling...

You say that it's easier to survive in a 109 and 190: you're right because people must learn to fly the 109/190 the right way while noobs in the old spitfire model could still score many kills against average pilots and sometimes against veterans too since they don't think about their survival. Infact today I usually don't attack a spitfire at my same altitude. Of course there are exceptions like Fenrir and his teammates and one guy in TD (sorry can't remember the name in this moment) and maybe some others: they used the Spitfire in the way a warbird should be used (!energy fighting!) and could not be killed even if outnumbered.

So IMO this is a great patch since also the average Spitfire pilot has to learn the basics of air fighting.

My squad is used to fly training dogfights at 7km with SpitV vs 109F and the first day using the 4.10 Spitfire all the "Red" pilots were surprised and happy at the same time. The common exlamation was "FINALLY!".

Now I can return to love that plane in IL2 too (but Fenrir is right about those issues).

[JoeA]

You know, I really don't think the whining is going to stop with COD.

I do hope the Spit was made more realistic in any case.

[swiss]

Then I think you have to understand if some pilots who really has resigned themself to fly a wierd Fw190 (the "bar" is only the peak of the iceberg in that plane, you'll see) now they find "relaxing" that the plane of their nightmare has been tuned down. After year of "luftwhiners" calling...

You say that it's easier to survive in a 109 and 190: you're right because people must learn to fly the 109/190 the right way while noobs in the old spitfire model could still score many kills

Amen.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

I've always had more luck continuing to fight after being shot when in a 109 or 190. I've found the Spit a lot more fragile the the German fighters.

ROFLMAO LOL MDR

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

So how are you in a good position to compare the modelling of different fighters?

At least my plane taught me some skills to defeat better planes. I doubt it happens with the spit.

[SEE]

The La's and Yaks are the most stable but presenting an argument that Spitty pilots (or Russian for that matter!) are therefore less competent isn't really useful or accurate. I just had a most enjoyable hour on the 'BOB' server.....in a 'Spitty' of course and I make no aplogies for that!

[CIA_KC]

Hi all, new to the forum but not to the sim. Thought I'd chime in on this. There were many changes in 4.1, many I do not like but I'm dealing with them.
I fly both red and blue, predominately on WC or Sv109 and due to the new damage model on fw I have changed to flying the 109 almost exclusively. I always felt that the spitty had been way too good at e retention prior to 4.1 and we always "killed the spitty first" Some of the things I have noticed is that many of the regs that fly the spitty seem to stall much more often than they used to and probably does get really frustrating. Now to qualify my statements I DO NOT fly the spitty often and can't say what has changed by flying them, but I AM qualified to see that while fighting experienced spitty drivers that they seem to be having much more difficulty. From my pov only it seems that the planes are much more evenly matched and for that I am happy. As to the person who said that the 109 doesn't stall nearly as fast as the spitty, it's due to the complete concrete elevator that the 109 has (not really and advantage )
I will continue to fly this game as I love it!!! reguardless of how much the new FM or DM has changed. Haven't we figured it out yet that noone is ever going to be totally happy LOL. We all can remember all the spitty drivers in the previous patches calling us luftwhiners. Nowadays I do fly more blue than red, but that's because I always join the outnumbered team, and with 4.1 that is almost always blue, usually due to everyones love affair with the new 51 FM, but that's another post entirely.
~S~ all see u in the air!
CIA_KC
Jeff Mc.

[Fenrir]

Guys, can i make a request that we stop attacking people and making synde remarks regarding pilot skill just because of the plane someone chooses to fly?

It's snobbery of the highest and most disgusting order, and no-one should be maligned in this community for choosing to fly their favourite plane.

Do I malign 190 pilots for choosing a plane with awesome firepower? No.

Do I insult 109 pilots for having a plane with excellent lateral stability at the stall? No.

Do I attack either for their ability to outrun (with a couple of exceptions) the equivalent Spitfire Mk of that theatre/year? No.

Yes, the Spitfire is one of the easier planes to fly and fight - which is historically and prototypically correct btw; a vast majority of former WW2 pilots and modern day operators will attest to that- but having flown the equivalent various Mks of 109 and 190 myself, against Spits, these planes have their advantages, tho small I warrant you, and a good pilot will use them to his advantage.

I suspect too many of you Luft-fans are wandering into fights co-alt or below -I avoid them even in the spit - and you fight on it's terms. No wonder you get pwned so often.

If you have a problem with FMs then fine, but leave us the operators out of it - we don't design the flight models, we like you are just trying to get them to a stage where it reflects what we read and can find documented.

It's funny btw, that no Spit pilot here has complained about the percieved e-retention change; we just want an aircraft that doesn't constantly roll right throughout the majority of it's fighting speed range. It's all the Lufties who have jumped on there particular agenda yelling about that. Funny, eh?


And for those who didn't see it earlier, here's some documented fact by a spitfire pilot who flew Mks I - XIX:

Me, earlier:

Real spit pilots used to have their ailerons manually trimmed by their 'chiefy' - in the earlier spits with fabric ailerons a piece of cord was doped onto the trailing edge of the aileron on the wing that was dropping too much, thereby causing that aileron to droop slightly and thus lift the wing. How much depended on the length (and therefore weight) of the cord. A system of trial and error was used to get the balance about right.

With the metal ailerons, this was considered a bit old fashioned, and instead the 'chiefy' would give the offending aileron a few hearty wallops with a hide-faced hammer to bend it. If that didn't work, they'd swap round ailerons till they found a pair that gave the pilot the best compromise in the speed range he was happiest. - paraphrasing Tom Neil, Spitfire: From The Cockpit ISBN 0-7110-1918-5

So theoretically I should be able to CHOOSE the aileron neutral trim point of my spitfire.

[klem]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

...............

So theoretically I should be able to CHOOSE the aileron neutral trim point of my spitfire.

Now THAT's realistic! Ask your chiefy.

Hope Oleg thought of that for the COD War.

Anyway some of the 'finer FM points' arguments are probably wasted on us average pilots.