I Want my 4.09 Spit FM's back.........

[fruitbat]

To me the only thing that feels off and way off at that, is the position of the aerilon trim tabs. it always wants to roll, but the opposite way to the torque. At full power it almost reaches the position of not rolling due to the torque, but at any sort of cruise settings the roll is amplified, due to the reduced torque to cancel it out.

still easy to fight in, just much harder to do formation in.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

To me the only thing that feels off and way off at that, is the position of the aerilon trim tabs. it always wants to roll, but the opposite way to the torque. At full power it almost reaches the position of not rolling due to the torque, but at any sort of cruise settings the roll is amplified, due to the reduced torque to cancel it out.

still easy to fight in, just much harder to do formation in.

Bingo. The elevator trim being needing much more positive input for keeping the nose level is based on credible sources. I do wonder about the aileron neutral trim value tho.

Real spit pilots used to have their ailerons manually trimmed by their 'chiefy' - in the earlier spits with fabric ailerons a piece of cord was doped onto the trailing edge of the aileron on the wing that was dropping too much, thereby causing that aileron to droop slightly and thus lift the wing. How much depended on the length (and therefore weight) of the cord. A system of trial and error was used to get the balance about right.

With the metal ailerons, this was considered a bit old fashioned, and instead the 'chiefy' would give the offending aileron a few hearty wallops with a hide-faced hammer to bend it. If that didn't work, they'd swap round ailerons till they found a pair that gave the pilot the best compromise in the speed range he was happiest. - paraphrasing Tom Neil, Spitfire: From The Cockpit ISBN 0-7110-1918-5

Now, to my taste, the 4.09 had this about right. The spits level cruise about 220mph - 250 mph and that's where i'd want my aileron neutral; below the torque is stonger and you get left wing drop; above and the airflow effect overcomes the torque and you get right wing drop.

At the moment in 4.10 it seems to be down below even the 180mph mark and that means you get substantial *right* wing drop throughout the combat range and even on a shallow climb out - which feels wrong, with the addition that this characteristic effects no other aircraft in game; no other aircraft are neutrally trimmed this way in game, and in all my years of researching spitfire flight behavior I have never seen 'pronounced right-wing drop across all marks across majority of speed range' written anywhere.

If only Il-2 had a 'chiefy'; I'd have him bashing my Spits ailerons!

[Oktoberfest]

So good to see the spit FM come closer to reality AT LAST ! Now they'll actually have to learn the basics of flying an aircraft and not a UFO !

[SEE]

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

So good to see the spit FM come closer to reality AT LAST ! Now they'll actually have to learn the basics of flying an aircraft and not a UFO !

Bit over the top TBH and best disregarded, we are talking about the changes in the patch regards the Spits FM, nothing to do with flying skills.........

[wizardd]

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

So good to see the spit FM come closer to reality AT LAST ! Now they'll actually have to learn the basics of flying an aircraft and not a UFO !

Learn ACM's kiddo.

[TheGrunch]

Oktoberfest manages just fine from what I hear...

[SEE]

O.K., been trying the other variants and can live with them so decided to do a wee bit of research on the Seafire L Mk3 (which seems to be underpowered compared to 4.09). It had a Merlin 55 series engine so will do a bit more reading.

I came across this whilst doing a bit of research........can I have one of these instead T.D.? (purely for MP......)


German Daimler Benz powered Spitfire VB

In November 1942 a Spitfire VB EN830 NX-X of 131 Squadron made a forced landing in a turnip field at Dielament Manor, Trinity, Jersey, under German occupation at the time. This aircraft was repairable and started being test flown in German markings and colours at the Luftwaffe research facilities at Rechlin. There it was proposed that the Spitfire's Merlin engine should be replaced by a Daimler-Benz DB 605A inverted Vee-12 engine; the Spitfire was sent to Echterdingen, south of Stuttgart, where Daimler-Benz operated a flight testing division.[97]

When the Merlin engine was removed it was discovered that the fuselage cross section was virtually identical to that of the engine nacelle of a Messerschmitt Bf-110G. Consequently a new engine support structure was built onto the Spitfire's fuselage and the DB 605 engine and cowling panels added. A propeller unit and supercharger air intake from a Bf 109 G completed the installation.[97]

Other changes made were to replace the Spitfire instruments with German types, and to change the 12-volt electrical system to the German 24-volt type. In this form the Daimler-Benz Spitfire started flying in early 1944. It was popular with German pilots and was flown regularly until destroyed in a USAAF bombing raid on 14 August 1944.[97][98]

[6S.Manu]

Yes, the trim is the wierd thing about these new spits. No joke here.

Anyway I'm starting to refly them since 4.10 has given IL2 a new life (wonderful patch).

I'm really curious to see the CoD's Spits.

@Fenrir: are you Fenrir of the Black Dragons? How are you? Where does your squad fly in these days?

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Yes, the trim is the wierd thing about these new spits. No joke here.

Anyway I'm starting to refly them since 4.10 has given IL2 a new life (wonderful patch).

I'm really curious to see the CoD's Spits.

Manu, as a Lufty flyer I respect, can you see the issue here with the ailerons?

It also seems to get worse with the more powerful spits, which is counter intuitive; surely, more power = more torque = LEFT wing drop, not right as with the 4.10 spits.

It's been a long time since those halcyon days on Spits V 109s buddy, I hope you are well.

I'm now a DangerDog, and very well thanks mate. The Black Dragons fell by the wayside after an enforced hiatus, spend most of my time mainly online co-oping with the squad and a very merry, fun loving bunch they are! You still fly Spits V 109s? 4.10 or modded?

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Manu, as a Lufty flyer I respect, can you see the issue here with the ailerons?

It also seems to get worse with the more powerful spits, which is counter intuitive; surely, more power = more torque = LEFT wing drop, not right as with the 4.10 spits.

It's been a long time since those halcyon days on Spits V 109s buddy, I hope you are well.

I'm now a DangerDog, the Black Dragons fell by the wayside after an enforced hiatus, mainly online co-oping with the squad. You still fly Spits V 109s? 4.10 or modded?

Nice to see you!

Yes I see the problem and I hope TD can fix it: it's nice to fly against right airplanes (not uber / not nerfed). But anyway it's nice to fly against good pilots like you!

I don't fly anymore in public dogfight servers, usually some of my teammates (the new generation) fly in the BoB server. However we are very active on SEOW: it would be nice if you guys could join the SEOW squadrons (even if it wouldn't be good for the Axis side )