Beaufighter: why isn't the rear observer position usable?

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Thanks Jason, your feedback is invaluable, it sounds like this is indeed original work done for PF. Would you happen to know if the Beaufighter cockpit / gunner's seat model creator is still contactable and whether this model is able to be sent to TD?

Could anyone from TD comment here to clarify or advise status? Any official word would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

[WTE_Galway]

In addition RAAF serials A8-253 and A8-3 were modified to take 0.50 cal wing guns but it doesn't sound like these ever became operational.

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Interesting, didn't know that. Were those to replace the 303's or additional to them?

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by _RAAF_Firestorm

Interesting, didn't know that. Were those to replace the 303's or additional to them?

Replace.

I am not a beaufighter expert and do not have any books or other references on the aussie Beaufighters so I am only going on web references.

The reference to the testbed planes is from ADF serials for DAP Beaufighters (A8 series):

http://www.adf-serials.com/2a8.shtml

Note that ADF serials also show quite a few Mk 21 as operational under Bristol Beaufighters (A19 series):

http://www.adf-serials.com/2a19.shtml

Further googling around revealed web sources generally classify the mk21 as having 0.50 cal wing guns not 0.303


Wikipedia says this:

Beaufighter Mk 21
The Australian-made DAP Beaufighter. Changes included Hercules CVII engines, four 20 mm cannon in the nose, four Browning .50 in (12.7 mm) in the wings and the capacity to carry eight 5 in (130 mm) High-Velocity Aircraft Rockets (HVAR), two 250 lb (110 kg) bombs, two 500 lb (230 kg) bombs and one Mk 13 torpedo.

Which agrees with History of war. (http://www.historyofwar.org/articles..._variants.html)

Mk 21
Engine: Two Bristol Hercules VIII radial engines
Horsepower: 1,720
Speed: 323 mph
Ceiling: 26,500 feet
Range: 1,500 miles
Armament: Four 20mm cannon under the nose and four .50in Browning machine guns in the wings.

so both those references state 0.50 cal was fitted to the Mk 21

If a variant ever existed with 0.50 cal in the wings and a tail gun as well that would be a great plane to have ingame.

The other interesting variant is the mkV tested a Bolton Paul power turrent with 4 x 0.303 however only two of these were made.

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Well from memory, the Beau Mk21 at Moorabbin Airport Museum has .303's in the wings, not .50 cals. I'm 99.9% sure about that. How interesting!

[IvanK]

DT are watching this thread

In the case of the MK21 few RAAF Beaufighters ever carried a gun in the observers cockpit. There are just 2 images (that I am aware of) of MK21's ever the showing a rearward facing .303 MG but thats about it, one of the images (A8-99 over Princess Bridge Melbourne) is a little sus and looks as if it has been retouched. The other one shows a MK21 (A8-95) over the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance that has a gun in the back but thats about it. Given only the MK21 is modelled in IL2 (and only the RAAF operated the MK21) then discussion of the early marks in RAAF/RAF service is perhaps redundant, however in most cases they also did not carry any rearward facing armament.

In RAF service the TF.X a rearward facing .303 calibre weapon was common, where a specific non bubble observers cockpit was fitted

The idea of Nav providing SA by Bandit sightings etc has great merit.

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Ivan, your words are music to the ears of so many people!

Great to see that you've done some research on the matter already. We'd love to hear more about what you've got in the works but obviously understand that you guys can only share information selectively.

Thanks for dropping by with a carrot!

[TheDawg]

as mentioned, in full tick servers, it would be nice to stab the C key and take a quick look if nothing else. I see AI gunners start peeling the MG's around long before they touch off a round. I've used that to keep my eye to the sky-
As often as Ivan winds up screaming at me from the back seat of the IL2, why not some cockney dude yelling something about an intruder-

[jameson]

Dawg,
I think we'd stopped deporting cockneys to Oz by the start of ww2....