Future of simulations 2010 discussion

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by csThor

Given the playing habits and the general dweebery of +70% of the online crowd the online area and the "human factor" is grossly overrated. Most cannot think beyond their limited horizon of dogfight this, dogfight that, sportive contest and other such cr@p (planeset whines anyone?) which is why you'll never see an accurate depiction of WW2 aerial warfare online.

True every word you're saying I recon, don't have too much online experience but I guess it's often a fragfest. And offline indeed is a mandatory piece which I couldn't live without.

I just started wondering whether arranging simulating WW2 aerial warfare online is indeed a mission impossible. One thing that there might be a lot to learn from is iRacing. For those of you not familiar with it, it's a pay per month approach of arranging true racing simulation online. You need to log with your real name (I think it was controlled by cross checking with your credit card) and there is an active governing hosted by the staff and the community to keep the experience top-notch.
I tried it and never ended up with a morons crashing or whining in the races or in the boards. You progressed in rank as you learned and the level of opposition remained challenging. I had to give it up as the level was too high for me at the moment, but I long to log in again and drive a few races. It's no GT5 when it comes to volumes but it has a community 20k strong.

I just wonder how many of the WW2 enthusiasts would be interested enough to invest a few bucks monthly for a well arranged and facilitated WW2 experience with mission/campaign focus, solid chain of command and only gentlemen in your wing. I would give high-fives for a thing like that, but I wonder if I'm the only nut willing to invest on something like that. Probably not enough volume for a 24x7 running controlled experience but with scheduled flying nights I think it might be easy to get a server filled over and over again.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Last night online I sank 6 capital ships online (which one of the main red objectives listed in the map brief!) and only encountered one lone Blue plane on the last mission which failed to shoot me down before I reached the target area a sank another ship.

There were plenty of Blue planes but as you know 'Wolves' and Dachshund hunt in packs! There were plenty of blue comments on shoulder shooting etc and I was even making remarks about how The Blues must really hate their Navy. I myself was flying buy myself which was very un-realistic. (A majestic Englist Pointer if you may!)

Which only goes to show that a developer can create the most realistic aircraft and environments, The mission designer can craft a intricate and/or historically accurate senario, but unless the people with their bums on their seats show a bit of dicipline it all comes to nought!


Cheers!

[Tte. Costa]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Last night online I sank 6 capital ships online (which one of the main red objectives listed in the map brief!) and only encountered one lone Blue plane on the last mission which failed to shoot me down before I reached the target area a sank another ship.

There were plenty of Blue planes but as you know 'Wolves' and Dachshund hunt in packs! There were plenty of blue comments on shoulder shooting etc and I was even making remarks about how The Blues must really hate their Navy. I myself was flying buy myself which was very un-realistic. (A majestic Englist Pointer if you may!)

Which only goes to show that a developer can create the most realistic aircraft and environments, The mission designer can craft a intricate and/or historically accurate senario, but unless the people with their bums on their seats show a bit of dicipline it all comes to nought!


Cheers!

impossible to explain it better!

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Last night online I sank 6 capital ships online (which one of the main red objectives listed in the map brief!) and only encountered one lone Blue plane on the last mission which failed to shoot me down before I reached the target area a sank another ship.

There were plenty of Blue planes but as you know 'Wolves' and Dachshund hunt in packs! There were plenty of blue comments on shoulder shooting etc and I was even making remarks about how The Blues must really hate their Navy. I myself was flying buy myself which was very un-realistic. (A majestic Englist Pointer if you may!)

Which only goes to show that a developer can create the most realistic aircraft and environments, The mission designer can craft a intricate and/or historically accurate senario, but unless the people with their bums on their seats show a bit of dicipline it all comes to nought!


Cheers!

I absolutely agree! I have seen that too often enough, a very nice map of Malayia, big furball right in front of a large port, the fighters all busy with checking their gunstats and kill-stealing bull, no one paying attention to a lone low flying bomber that has widely circuted the furball and is attacking from behind. They just where wondering how a bomber got past them, but could not figur that maybe their furball play kept them too distracted.....
I personally doubt this will ever change, at least not on general public servers. Squadron events is of course a differant cup of tea.

[F19_Klunk]

+1

Skoshi hit the nail.

It IS fun from time to time to just play around and we have to appreciate the fact that people fly combat sim for different reasons, but I wish everyone try get into planned and organized attacks... this is so much more rewarding... and the best way to do that is to join some kind of squadron. I have flown this game since it came out... and starting up F19 in 2003 was the best (or worst as my wife says sometimes with a grin) decision ... it has made me stick to glue to this sim for almost 8 years now, something I would never have done if I had flown solo. Our teamwork in F19/F16 (aka SvAF) is what makes this sim fun.

I think Oleg and Co should think about that and consider if they can promote and encourage squadrons because I believe that you really prolong "life expectancy" of a sim through organised simming.

[imaca]

Originally Posted by whatnot

Probably not enough volume for a 24x7 running controlled experience but with scheduled flying nights I think it might be easy to get a server filled over and over again.

your "night" is probably my work day...

Originally Posted by F19_Klunk

.....but I wish everyone try get into planned and organized attacks... this is so much more rewarding... and the best way to do that is to join some kind of squadron. I have flown this game since it came out... and starting up F19 in 2003 was the best (or worst as my wife says sometimes with a grin) decision ... it has made me stick to glue to this sim for almost 8 years now, something I would never have done if I had flown solo. Our teamwork in F19/F16 (aka SvAF) is what makes this sim fun.

which I'm sure is fun, but I'm also sure takes a hell of a lot of time.

for a lot of us I suspect that:
fragfest online gamplay=rock
and
TIME needed for any other more co-operative gameplay=hardplace

I used to play Warbirds many eons ago before marriage and kids, not to mention hobbies that involve actual physical activity (mountain biking, cycling etc) made it clear that life just doesn't have enough time.
Throw in living on the far corner of the world with the ping time that goes with it, and online gaming has zero appeal.

An in depth offline campaign, with an interesting and believable AI/environment, which can be saved and continued at leisure is the best I can hope for.
Multiplayer is nice, but I would rather play on a LAN with people I know and a ping approaching real time.
In my view ROF dropped the ball in this regard. I was looking forward to putting one of the kids or wife in the back of a Brisfit and playing against AI on the LAN - that would have got them interested in flying for sure.

[ElAurens]

There are times I get the feeling that some of those on both sides of the "realism" issue are out to convert the other side to their way of game play. A "My way or no way!" stance that is simply not in the best interest of the sim overall.

Isn't this piece of entertainment software big enough to encompass all types of game play?

It always used to be.

You want no cockpit furball action? Go for it. More sales for Oleg, a good thing.

You want to take a half an hour getting all the bombers in an online war lined up perfectly on the runway by tactical number, and fly the whole mission with someone barking orders in your head set? Great! Again, more sales for Oleg.

The easier it is for people to access the sim in the manner that pleases them the better it is for all of us.

This is not rocket science, it's what we do for enjoyment.

Peace.

[Wolf_Rider]

Well said