LW VS VVS PLANES at 4.10

[=SLO=Hellcat]

Originally Posted by Richie

Real dumb answer.

Thank you for your constructive and detailed response, Richie.
Man with your level of intellect would surely know that my answer was meant to be dumb and provocative.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by =SLO=Hellcat

Thank you for your constructive and detailed response, Richie.
Man with your level of intellect would surely know that my answer was meant to be dumb and provocative.

Yes, the causes that leaded the allies to the victory certainly was not technical advantage. All we known that. However i do not want to discuss about and I prefer to not flame the topic. This subject is endless.

[Mustang]

About to Tecnical advantage

Tecnical advantage.... ???




Erich Hartmann: 352
Gerhard Barkhorn: 301
Günther Rall: 275
Otto Kittel: 267
Walter Nowotny: 258
Wilhelm Batz: 242
TheoWeissenberger: 238
Erich Rudorffer: 222
Heinrich Bar: 220
Heinz Releer:220
Hans Phillipp: 213
Walter Schuck: 206
Antón Hafner: 204
Helmut Lippert: 203
Hermann Graf: 202
Walter Krupinski: 197
Antón Hackl: 190
Joachim Brendle: 189
Max Stotz: 189
Joachim Kirschner: 185
Werner Brandle: 180
Gunther Josten: 178
Joh. Steinhoff: 176
Gunther Schack: 174
Heinz Schmidt: 173
Emil Lang: 173
E.W. Reinert: 169
Horst Adameit: 166
Wolf D. Wilcke: 161
Gordon Gollob: 160
Hans J. Marseille: 158
Gerhard Thyben: 157
Hans Beisswenger: 152
Meter Duttmann: 152

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Originally Posted by Mustang

About to Tecnical advantage

Tecnical advantage.... ???

Erich Hartmann: 352
Gerhard Barkhorn: 301
Günther Rall: 275
Otto Kittel: 267
Walter Nowotny: 258
Wilhelm Batz: 242
TheoWeissenberger: 238
Erich Rudorffer: 222
Heinrich Bar: 220
Heinz Releer:220
Hans Phillipp: 213
Walter Schuck: 206
Antón Hafner: 204
Helmut Lippert: 203
Hermann Graf: 202
Walter Krupinski: 197
Antón Hackl: 190
Joachim Brendle: 189
Max Stotz: 189
Joachim Kirschner: 185
Werner Brandle: 180
Gunther Josten: 178
Joh. Steinhoff: 176
Gunther Schack: 174
Heinz Schmidt: 173
Emil Lang: 173
E.W. Reinert: 169
Horst Adameit: 166
Wolf D. Wilcke: 161
Gordon Gollob: 160
Hans J. Marseille: 158
Gerhard Thyben: 157
Hans Beisswenger: 152
Meter Duttmann: 152

Things like combat experience and the environment count at least as much as technical considerations.

[WTE_Galway]

The Spitfire was far to effete and pretty to take the same G as planes with more machismo.

This needs to be taken into account

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Gitano

Things like combat experience and the environment count at least as much as technical considerations.

-And the fact that Allied pilots where on rotation much more often.

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

-And the fact that Allied pilots where on rotation much more often.

Indeed. And many of them went to training units to pass their experience. AFAIK only few experienced LW pilots went to command training units, like Herman Graf.

[Ernst]

I tested more two aircraft. The rough P-47 made the "crank" at ~9.0G. Since i am doing the experiments there is some room of error, maybe in future someone ll can do some autopilot tests and compare this kind of info.

I tested the 109 but cannot pull more than ~7.0G. The elevator is so heavy at high speeds that is impossible to go beyond the sevice G, maybe this is an advantage because the pilot can pull back back the stick with no worry. I did not used the trim in 109 to "cheat" the turn.

I overstressed the aircrafts i tested quite a lot but not passed 10Gs. I did not observed any structural damage or penalty except that weird sound. How much must i overstress my plane to have problems? What kind of problems? This is a question to TD guys.

p.s.: if somenone break the 109 by Gs deserves be proclamed a Saint. Because is a miracle.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Gitano

Indeed. And many of them went to training units to pass their experience. AFAIK only few experienced LW pilots went to command training units, like Herman Graf.

Essentially with experten leading operational Jagdgeschwader those Jagdgeschwader were the final combat training unit. As the war went on and attrition occurred this system proved detrimental.

Also ... one thing to remember about the target rich environment and 24/7 year in year out fighting of Eastern Front Jagdgeschwader is the entire war became a training exercise for those that survived.

Hartmann did not necessarily start the war with more talent or skill than his lower scoring allied counterparts. Early career, iif provided with the target rich Eastern Front environment that the LW enjoyed, some of the allied aces may even have scored substantially better.

However that is beside the point, by the wars end Hartmann and soem of the other experten had several thousand more hours in combat than any non-soviet allied pilot and over 300 "practice kills" against live targets under his belt. It seems unlikely anyone else, no matter how talented, could compete with that level of experience in actual combat.

Its a bit like comparing a talented high school footballer with a seasoned professional. Time in the hot seat really counts.

[Richie]

Originally Posted by =SLO=Hellcat

Thank you for your constructive and detailed response, Richie.
Man with your level of intellect would surely know that my answer was meant to be dumb and provocative.

Well here in my town I thought my name was Stupid until I was 35.