Surprising quality gun camera footage from japanese theatre.

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by moilami

My point is as I wrote it:

Those who shooted chutes made the real sacrifice. They stopped playing a wargame and begun to do their best to eliminate the enemy. In the process they sacrificed their humanity, their principles of not shooting helpless, their respect as seen by enemy and comrades (honour stuff), and their safety of not getting shooted at in a chute by themselves. They sacrificed possibly everything we can imagine to stop the war and minimize casualties. They had the choise, and they made the sacrifice.

There is no words about right or wrong, good or bad, or anything like that. It was all about unseen sacrifice some pilots did, and which makes a very good example what kind of madness the war was in real even though it can be looked with rose coloured eye shades.

What sacrifice did those that shoot chutes make? That sounds like a murderer makes also a sacrifice. I differ between stopping someone from fighting on and killing him out right. You make it sound like a butcher is someone doing something honourable........can it be you have just been playing too many shooter games? Your line of thought is just a step away from saying well to stop the enemy one must also prevent new soldiers from coming, so kill also any civilian in sight as that is a potential new soldier or could raise one....... I think you would have a hard time in the military, only a gamer talks like that.

[robtek]

Any soldier knows he might be at the receiving end sometimes.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Wutz

What sacrifice did those that shoot chutes make? That sounds like a murderer makes also a sacrifice. I differ between stopping someone from fighting on and killing him out right. You make it sound like a butcher is someone doing something honourable........can it be you have just been playing too many shooter games? Your line of thought is just a step away from saying well to stop the enemy one must also prevent new soldiers from coming, so kill also any civilian in sight as that is a potential new soldier or could raise one....... I think you would have a hard time in the military, only a gamer talks like that.

Murderes have a choise. Soldiers don't have a choise, at least we don't begin to argue about that did they have a choise or not.

If you are a soldier and don't eliminate the enemy when you have the best chance, then you just failed. Elimination can be killing or capturing the enemy.

And don't take honour into this. I haven't written about honour. Stay in line.

[Wutz]

Forget it you are hopeless. I know many soldiers that would boot you for that kind of attitude. Pointless in carrying on.
It also shows you know little of military tactics, a dead soldier is done with, a wounded soldier binds more man power reducing the enemies fighting ability. But sure put a bullet in the persons head big sacrifice pulling the trigger.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Wutz

Forget it you are hopeless. I know many soldiers that would boot you for that kind of attitude. Pointless in carrying on.
It also shows you know little of military tactics, a dead soldier is done with, a wounded soldier binds more man power reducing the enemies fighting ability. But sure put a bullet in the persons head big sacrifice pulling the trigger.

I don't know any soldiers I would boot, but I am very sure there are tons. I know also about military tactics and also that there are third way to eliminate the enemy, kind of supressing it. Don't know the word in English.

But if you are a fighter pilot, do you have those choises? No you don't. You can't only wound the soldier. You can't supress him. You can't capture him. You can only eliminate him by killing him. If he flies over your country, then you can gamble and let him go down to get captured.

Those are the choises. Or of course there is that sandbox choise "we just shoot planes down." It is good in gaming or if you fear yourself of being shot down.

[winny]

Originally Posted by moilami

I don't know any soldiers I would boot, but I am very sure there are tons. I know also about military tactics and also that there are third way to eliminate the enemy, kind of supressing it. Don't know the word in English.

But if you are a fighter pilot, do you have those choises? No you don't. You can't only wound the soldier. You can't supress him. You can't capture him. You can only eliminate him by killing him. If he flies over your country, then you can gamble and let him go down to get captured.

Those are the choises. Or of course there is that sandbox choise "we just shoot planes down." It is good in gaming or if you fear yourself of being shot down.

If there are no planes left then the pilot is irrelevant. This is what is known as Air superiority. There will always be people to put into planes.

Would you throw a grenade into a barn full of unarmed POW soilders?

Or execute anyone and everyone who surrendered?

Talk all you like about 'kill everyone who could possibly kill you at somepoint in the future' that argument could also be used to justify bombing children. It's a flawed argument.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by winny

If there are no planes left then the pilot is irrelevant. This is what is known as Air superiority. There will always be people to put into planes.

Would you throw a grenade into a barn full of unarmed POW soilders?

Or execute anyone and everyone who surrendered?

Talk all you like about 'kill everyone who could possibly kill you at somepoint in the future' that argument could also be used to justify bombing children. It's a flawed argument.

Yeah, air superiority, and part of that is forcing the enemy to use unskilled badly trained pilots. Quality counts too, as you know for sure.

And I am not talking about killing everyone. I have been specifically talking about eliminating the enemy. The enemy means enemy soldiers. Eliminating includes killing, supressing, capturing, whatever to make them not a threat. Forcing an enemy pilot to bail out is like forcing him to do a tactical retreat. Definetly he is not eliminated if bailed out over his lands. He is shooting at you, your friends, and your countrymen next day like in Battle of Britain.


Edit: And if we take "honour" into this, I would be interested to know what kind of honour standards Japanese had. Also I am interested of Polish pilots. Why they fought so mercilessly. At least there is no way I could say they were dishonourable right away. Maybe they had standards like "no mercy untill it is over".


Edit: If it would not be bad for the population inside the genre and if my current squadron would allow I would start fer sure a "chute shooters club" squadron


Edit: Will someone agro if I say "i lol when I shoot a chute" Such a pity I can't go taunt the squadron I am at war with

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by moilami

Yeah, air superiority, and part of that is forcing the enemy to use unskilled badly trained pilots. Quality counts too, as you know for sure.

And I am not talking about killing everyone. I have been specifically talking about eliminating the enemy. The enemy means enemy soldiers. Eliminating includes killing, supressing, capturing, whatever to make them not a threat. Forcing an enemy pilot to bail out is like forcing him to do a tactical retreat. Definetly he is not eliminated if bailed out over his lands. He is shooting at you, your friends, and your countrymen next day like in Battle of Britain.


Edit: And if we take "honour" into this, I would be interested to know what kind of honour standards Japanese had. Also I am interested of Polish pilots. Why they fought so mercilessly. At least there is no way I could say they were dishonourable right away. Maybe they had standards like "no mercy untill it is over".


Edit: If it would not be bad for the population inside the genre and if my current squadron would allow I would start fer sure a "chute shooters club" squadron


Edit: Will someone agro if I say "i lol when I shoot a chute" Such a pity I can't go taunt the squadron I am at war with

Oh man.....quality counts......hm how far do you get with the best fighters and the best pilots in the world with no fuel? That is what put the Luftwaffe pretty well and the Wehrmacht out of action no fuel. Not masses of killed people. But I am certain you will come up with some arguement saying that is so not right. As to your chute shooting squadron, just try it...I know for sure you would be then banned from the WoP servers real fast, and most squadrons that have been around for some time, have a lot of contempt for chute shooters, if you enjoy flying in a squadron no one wants to fly against, have fun, I am certain you will have lots of matches......

I absolutely agree with winny carrying on here is pointless, as a door has more understanding.