Warthog Review

[HFC_Dolphin]

Hey Flanker35M,
Nice to hear this!
Which other hotas/sticks have you used and how do you compare Warthog to them?

[Flanker35M]

S!

Dolphin I have used Microsoft FFB2, Saitek something, CH ForceFX, CH Fighter Stick + CH Pro Throttle, Thrustmaster F1(converted to digital) + TQLS, Thrustmaster Cougar x 2(both modified) and now the Warthog.

Warthog is the best of them with the ÜberMod NXT modded Cougar being second, almost equal. I tried IL-2 and Rise Of Flight..in both the difference was huge. The precision of this stick makes flying so much smoother, no more erratic stick movement or excessive waggling. Just pure joy to me. And the buttons being "stiffer" is so much better, very close to the real thing

So all in all, TM Warthog if you can budget for it. Now I just need to learn the new TARGET software. Foxy is still a bit more straightforward than this IMO, but matter of preference and learning I guess

Have a good weekend all

[House M.D.]

A quick question: is the stick stable as it is, or does it need to be screwed on the table?

[Flanker35M]

S!

House, it has rubber "feet" and the plate is big and heavy enough to hold it still I have had no problems with it moving nor does the throttle move either.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Hey Flanker...

What do you think of the lack of trim wheels for IL2. I know the Warthog has wheels but they aren't on the throttle itself. I have a modded Cougar as well (Evenstrain with Hall Sensors) and I've been thinking about this as my next HOTAS.

Let me know what you think about the trim wheels. I like using both my Ant Elev and Radar Range for certain axis.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing

Hey Flanker...

What do you think of the lack of trim wheels for IL2. I know the Warthog has wheels but they aren't on the throttle itself. I have a modded Cougar as well (Evenstrain with Hall Sensors) and I've been thinking about this as my next HOTAS.

Let me know what you think about the trim wheels. I like using both my Ant Elev and Radar Range for certain axis.

Hi Stubing

Since you have not taken the plunge yet AND you have an Evenstrain stick - let me offer you an alternative evaluation - my own after a couple of weeks off and on.

I'll keep my Warthog - however - since every review says "it's better than a mod Cougar" - here's some food for thought. This is from a post I made over at ROF forums:

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Ok, it's time to let the "cat" out of the bag a little bit - if for no other reason - to keep some users from perhaps making the same mistake as I did.

Let's start out with my predjudices, which drive my experience:

A. I fly prop sims, almost exclusively. DCS Black Shark would be the occasional exception, and of course - it has a few propellers

B. My Cougar is equipped with Ian Johnston's U2Nxt, high end gimbal system. This system get's it action/feel from precision ball bearings and 4 springs.

C. Very importantly, I have REMOVED the rubber boot from my Cougar - since 2005. This btw, reduces the joystick tension considerably. If you have a U2NXT and have left the boot on - you are flying with significantly more tension than I am, and dampening.

D. I have at least 7,000 hours of Il2 and ROF experience on this stick (conservative estimate). That of course, would highly skew my "preferences" with respect to props and my main stick itself.

E. I tend to be best at stick and rudder things - worst at gunnery - love acro and gain the most fulfillment from simulation in my ability to control my aircraft.

F. As a musician for over 40 years, mainly guitar - I am very sensitive (perhaps overly so) to small changes in the tactile feel and ergonomics of "input devices".

Now, last caveat:

I've only had my Warthog for two weeks, most of this time working on designing optimum application profiles for Rise of Flight - which has been complicated by all the new commands which came with 1.016

1. Stick tension of the Warthog joystick is noticably greater than U2Nxt Cougar without the rubber boot. For jet sim people, this may not mean much - particularly since I'd imagine most of the "Kept the rubber boot". I was a little miffed at this, because I read SIMHQ previews and reviews which said just the opposite. I remember from the first preview - the SIMHQ reporter saying:

"SimHQ's preview article was short on details about how the HOTAS Warthog felt to use. My initial impressions were very favorable; I have a Cougar modded with NXT gimbals and I think that the HOTAS Warthog stock gimbals feel even better. The HOTAS Warthog throttle feels very nice, too, and has a detent system that is worlds better than the Cougar's. However, for a true comparison SimHQ needs more time with the controller and the ability to do side-by-side A/B testing. When we review the HOTAS Warthog we will publish more thoughts on how the HOTAS feels."

2. There is a CENTER DETENT! The main reason for the U2Nxt was to eliminate the center detent to obtain greater control in this very critical area of flight. Of course, almost all other joysticks have a center detent, so this is a non-issue to anyone but a U2Nxt or perhaps other custom joystick user.

3. The switches are very heavy duty - a plus. On the down side, the buttons all have a longer throw - more travel is taken to actuate the buttons. The S1, S2, S3, S4 - Left Throttle button are stiffer and have at least twice the amount of travel-to-actuate. One would imagine that some of the stiffness will get worked out over time - however the travel/distance-to-actuate is what it is.

4. The rotaries are gone. Replaced with a single trim slider - which functions very smoothly and accurately.

5. You must keep TARGET running and initiate a script to keep a "profile" active in the Warthog. This was a surprise to me. One of the great things about the Cougar, is it's ability to retain a profile in memory inside the Cougar. If you fly the same profile, over and over - it's a great feature that I wish they would have retained. Again, most joysticks do not retain profiles - so most users won't notice this.

In summary, this is a great system - UNLESS you are a prop sim addict like me who already has a U2Nxt modified Cougar that you are happy with. If you are, then you might want to hold off on your Warthog order until I can get a more time with the stick.

The SIMHQ reviews and coverage of this device lead to me to believe things that just are not true about this package. In all fairness, the main reviewer's previous stick was an X-45,X-52 and the reporters who compared this stick to the U2nxt Cougar - were Jet Simmers.

Now, If you are an X-45/X-52, stock Cougar user or if you are U2Nxt guy and fly jet sims alot - then I think this stick is a large upgrade for you.

In many areas I'm impressed with the Warthog, however so far - I have the sinking feeling that I would have been better off to just keep my trusty modded Cougar.

I will let you know more as I gain more experience with this system. Perhaps some of my impressions will change. We'll see.

S!

Gunny
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Hope this helps...

S!

Gunny

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Stubing - one last note, I forgot to add.

I'm sure you've seen the review video from SimHQ - where the reviewer sits a U2Nxt side by side with a Warthog joystick. He proceeds to deflect both sticks to their X stops (left) and then lets them go abruptly.

The Warthog stick immediately fixes to the center with no "wobble".

The U2Nxt stick passes the center and wobbles around it.

It seems an impressive demo, until you realize that the reason the Warthog "sticks" immediately to the center is that it has a center detent - which of course the U2Nxt doesn't have. I was too dense to think about this while viewing the video before ordering.

Guess what - the stock Cougar will do exactly the same thing. Now with that said - the Warthog stick has significantly less tension and much more precision than the stock Cougar - but it has about the same center detent.

Since you have an Evenstrain mod (which I would have purchased if it were available when I modded) - which I think has slightly lower forces than my U2Nxt - and no center detent - this will be different for you.

I'm not recommending that you don't buy this stick, btw - that choice is personal, and I'm not sure how in love you are with your Evenstrain.

Hope I've helped...

Gunny

[Flanker35M]

S!

I agree with Gunny about the IanJ's ÜberMod NXT. It is one of the best mods your Cougar could ever get. I also flew it without the rubber boot for better feel. At "worst" time I had over 200h sticktime per month between 2001-2006 Tells about the durability of Cougar(not all the time of that but most). For me Warthog feels quite the same. I bet most of the feel will improve when I take the stick through the paces and the "brand new feel" wears out

About lack of rotaries..As I fly mainly Fw190 and Bf109 there are no problems with the rotaries being too few. For planes with more trims it could be, but again if using a TrackIR or similar you can use the trim on the stick

Buttons feel very good to me. About the same stiffness and movement as in the F-18C for example I like it this way. I assign buttons in-game, point and click. Far easier than using the TARGET for example. Works in IL-2 and RoF just fine I need no fancy macros or anything.

If you have a Cougar with EvenStrain or IanJ's modification then I would think a bit if REALLY need the 400€ stick or not. Your Cougar will for sure serve you for years ahead. But if a HW junkie like me, then go for it

[Matt255]

Originally Posted by House M.D.

A quick question: is the stick stable as it is, or does it need to be screwed on the table?

It's not stable enough, atleast not for me. But then i only fly WW1 and WW2 sims (for now) and those probably require a bit more quick movements than jet or helicopter sims.

If you move it quick from one side to the other and then hit the edge of the movement area, it will tilt a bit and the base-plate will move. I know 99% of the owners don't have this problem for some reason (probably because it costs ~400 €), but i'm certainly not abusing it (because it costs ~400 €). So better try it yourself.

You can unscrew the big baseplate and then only have the cylinder, which you could attach to your desk or pit. You can also rotate the base-plate 90°, which is what i've done, before attaching it to my table (when it's needed, i don't have a pit, so it's not permanent).

This is thing i don't like with this HOTAS, but since i screw it on anyway, it's not a problem.

Except for that, i can highly recommend it. It's worth the money imho. As for recent sticks i owned, that would only be the Saitek X52 and the MS FFB2 (which was my favorite before i got the Warthog). I did test the Cougar and didn't like it at all (weird movement, a bit sluggish). I also tested some of the latest Logitech sticks (excluding the G940), but they just don't even stand a chance against the X52 imho.

I especially like the TARGET script editor, it's very handy to assign all those switches on the throttle (which btw is even more impressive then the stick), especially for older flightsims like IL2. I'm pretty sure you won't run out of switches for WW1 or WW2 sims. All switches and buttons feel like very high quality, as does the overall throttle and stick. Accuracy of the stick is excellent. All axes use hall-effect sensors, so it should last for a while.

It's true, that it probably has too few rotaries (none) or axes (one) for trim. So if you really need more then one trim axis (which is something i don't need), this could be a problem for you. You could of course use one of the hat-switches for aileron and/or rudder trim.

Only bad thing is, that i now have two FFB2 that are collecting dust (almost breaking my heart, i plan to keep one of them ).