Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[csThor]

The last few pages are a perfect example why I never bothered with Mods:

Self-proclaimed experts who insinuate they've been fed pure wisdom instead of milk as a baby and who attack people bringing up very real concerns (DATA?).

EDIT:

How about this: For future FMs we throw darts over our shoulder at a dart board. What the dart hits is the value we enter. Ridiculous? Of course, but exactly the same credibility as some of the people here suggest. Even when the data currently in the game looks "irrational" we still need accurate and plausible data to change it. Otherwise ... well it'd be back to throwing darts. Nuff said ...

[bigbossmalone]

well, i didn't provide any data for my ship padlock request, which is in amongst those pages, as well....hope that's not included, lol
but seriously, it already works 'to a small degree'....is it asking to much to make it work properly, or at least a reply in either affirmative/negative....
i've requested this for a long time now, and repeatedly been ignored.......am i expected to provide some kind of padlocking 'data'?
if it can't be done, i'd be happy if someone just said so, at least i could be put out of my misery.....

[pupo162]

Being myself a mod hater, i have to agree with hades...

i mean, c'mon, he presented Data over Data, wich actually goes along my personall expirence in game. Team daidalus response was just childish here

I dont you grown up MEN, jsut make an arangemente go to a teamspoeak server and have a talk, it would be the best for this sim, if hades actually is able to prove he is right, with all the data and facts im sure he cllected, to TD then, wahts the problem of correcting it?

there is no bias here, jsut a sim...

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by pupo162

Being myself a mod hater, i have to agree with hades...

i mean, c'mon, he presented Data over Data, wich actually goes along my personall expirence in game. Team daidalus response was just childish here

I dont you grown up MEN, jsut make an arangemente go to a teamspoeak server and have a talk, it would be the best for this sim, if hades actually is able to prove he is right, with all the data and facts im sure he cllected, to TD then, wahts the problem of correcting it?

there is no bias here, jsut a sim...

Where? He presented false and incomplete information about source variables without understanding what they mean. All of this flavored with wild accusations.
No matter how fishy they look (and some of them do look fishy) what matters is ingame performance (test), comparison to historical evidence and game limitations.

We collect historical references on subjects we think might be wrong on our own. If you want to see some issue addressed sooner, it is by far the easiest way for us if you perform ingame tests and provide historical documents. We don't care who provides those data if everything is reliable.
That's the normal procedure for any "Bug report" for any game.
If you don't want to help, the issue goes at the end of the cue.

Now, you tell me how you want us to respond when someone comes along and says "something looks fishy, fix it!"?
Our experience is that in 90% of cases such claims are false.

[Hans Burger]

The last few pages are a perfect example why I never bothered with Mods:

Self-proclaimed experts who insinuate they've been fed pure wisdom instead of milk as a baby and who attack people bringing up very real concerns (DATA?).

I agree.
As soon a line of code (or data) is added, changed, … people doing that is a “self-proclaimed expert” and IMHO, modders but also DT enter in this case.
I don’t think is a good idea to separate people in two categories, modders on one side, DT on other side.
All these people try to improve IL2 and, at this point, maintain FB still alive. So, for me, real argumentation, can be only done around data and, probably, some compromises to implement them in order to match the game engine.

[II/JG54_Emil]

NONE OF THE DATA IS FALSE!!!

The data presented is in game right now.

I personally don´t expect you guys to jump up correct things right away.
But explaining you won´t do anything since the info comes from a modder is ...


All the Data given is factual data and not fictional data as you would like to see it.

If you need a secretary who is making a list of the named bugs, just say so.
I wouldn´t like to do it, but before everything is forgotten and swept away, I will do it.

[csThor]

All the Data given is factual data and not fictional data as you would like to see it.

No it is data from a "source" which can't be cross-checked and which may be based on faulty data to begin with. Do you see our problem? We don't know where that data came from (and I am not talking about Hades posting it here) and therefor we can't judge how reliable it is.

[I/ZG52_HaDeS]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Where? He presented false and incomplete information about source variables without understanding what they mean. All of this flavored with wild accusations.

So do you call me a "liar" now? At first you said that things like the Sniper ShVAKs 20mm gunner in Pe8 is "not a big problem" and you did not deny the meaning of the "delta angle" error. So, if does not indicate the Accuracy (dispersion) of the gun, please enlighten us, oh wise one, please. We are 'imbeciles" so we rely on your wisdom. Please, what does the "angle error" mean?
And for bombs you said that it is the way they are, so you confirmed the data are correct. But now you come here and accuse me of being a "liar". Please, oh wise one, enlighten us what these parameters mean? Please do, since we are so ignorant.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

No matter how fishy they look (and some of them do look fishy) what matters is ingame performance (test), comparison to historical evidence and game limitations.

So, despite they "look" "fishy" they are "correct". And then, how come and in the 2001 Original IL2 release these values Did NOT look "fishy" ?
could you explain please? Since you are the wisdom-holder.
Moreover people DO confirm these largely false data. They can "FEEL" them but they have not the data to support their feeling. Now they have.
Could you also explain to us ignorants, the meaning of the Bomb values i posted? Please?

Originally Posted by MicroWave

We collect historical references on subjects we think might be wrong on our own.

Really? So, where are Your Historical sources for the pylons you made to weight 15 kilos? Can we see your "Sources" please?
Can we also see your sources that start the mentone bomb and rocket pylons to have Zero weight?
Moreover can you show us your "sources" that justify the Double-Penetration value of some Weapons? Lets say the ShKAS over the .303 Brownings. can we see that please?
Also, can we see your sources that proove the data from the 2001 release about Bombs as FALSE while the current game data be regarded as corrrect?

Originally Posted by MicroWave

If you want to see some issue addressed sooner, it is by far the easiest way for us if you perform ingame tests and provide historical documents. We don't care who provides those data if everything is reliable.

Please, as i wrote above: can we see your data about the 15 Kgs pylons and for the Zero-Weight pylons also? Also about the guns, Bombs, etc....

Originally Posted by MicroWave

That's the normal procedure for any "Bug report" for any game.
If you don't want to help, the issue goes at the end of the cue.

Many people have informed you for the many bugs that this game suffers, but you did nothing.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Now, you tell me how you want us to respond when someone comes along and says "something looks fishy, fix it!"?

It does not only "looks" fishy, it FEELS "fishy", it IS Wrong! Like the overheating issues, the extraordinary destructiveness of Certain Bombs, Weapons, etc...

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Our experience is that in 90% of cases such claims are false.

With such an attitude, i am not surprised

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

So do you call me a "liar" now?
At first you said that things like the Sniper ShVAKs 20mm gunner in Pe8 is "not a big problem" and you did not deny the meaning of the "delta angle" error. So, if does not indicate the Accuracy (dispersion) of the gun, please enlighten us, oh wise one, please. We are 'imbeciles" so we rely on your wisdom. Please, what does the "angle error" mean?

I'm not at liberty to discuss internal game mechanics with you. Just let me remind you of your posts recently:
1) B20 is used on Russian bombers and it is the cause of Sniper gunner accuracy. You failed to mention there are a number of Luftwaffe guns with the same entry.
When proved to be false, you continue
2) AHA, but there is another Russian gun which is used on one plane.
I performed ingame tests and didn't notice observable effect, if any when changing the variable. Something you could have done instead of barging in like a cowboy.
You also failed to mention that there is another gun with that entry that is used by a Luftwaffe plane.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

And for bombs you said that it is the way they are, so you confirmed the data are correct. But now you come here and accuse me of being a "liar". Please, oh wise one, enlighten us what these parameters mean? Please do, since we are so ignorant.

Again, I'm not at liberty to discuss internal game mechanics with you. I can confirm that some of the bomb parameters look odd. At this moment it is unclear how they affect the game. Therefore it is not clear if, and to what value they should be changed.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

So, despite they "look" "fishy" they are "correct". And then, how come and in the 2001 Original IL2 release these values Did NOT look "fishy" ?
could you explain please? Since you are the wisdom-holder.
Moreover people DO confirm these largely false data. They can "FEEL" them but they have not the data to support their feeling. Now they have.
Could you also explain to us ignorants, the meaning of the Bomb values i posted? Please?

Yes they are considered as accurate. Until proven otherwise. The proof consists of performing (preferably repeatable) ingame tests and gathering historical info. Some physical interpolation and interpretation can be used if historical info is incomplete.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

Really? So, where are Your Historical sources for the pylons you made to weight 15 kilos? Can we see your "Sources" please?
Can we also see your sources that start the mentone bomb and rocket pylons to have Zero weight?

We have significant amount of sources regarding pylon weights and pylon weights will be changed in 4.10. I believe it was announced already?

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

Moreover can you show us your "sources" that justify the Double-Penetration value of some Weapons? Lets say the ShKAS over the .303 Brownings. can we see that please?

I'm not familiar with the subject.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

Also, can we see your sources that proove the data from the 2001 release about Bombs as FALSE while the current game data be regarded as corrrect?

No. Those numbers were changed by 1C/Maddox and I have no reason not to trust them without a concrete proof that they are wrong. See one of the answers above.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

Please, as i wrote above: can we see your data about the 15 Kgs pylons and for the Zero-Weight pylons also? Also about the guns, Bombs, etc....

As I said, pylons weight are changed in 4.10, no point in discussing 4.09. I can also confirm that 15kg pylon weight is a bug and was brought to our attention by someone performing ingame tests.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

Many people have informed you for the many bugs that this game suffers, but you did nothing.

I beg to differ.

Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS

It does not only "looks" fishy, it FEELS "fishy", it IS Wrong! Like the overheating issues, the extraordinary destructiveness of Certain Bombs, Weapons, etc...
With such an attitude, i am not surprised

And what is right then? The rest is just assorted pile of complaints with zero value. No surprise.

[I/ZG52_HaDeS]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

I'm not at liberty to discuss internal game mechanics with you. Just let me remind you of your posts recently:

So your assumption and claim that i am a "liar" and these values mean something else are not valid since you don't provide any credible answer or data.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

1) B20 is used on Russian bombers and it is the cause of Sniper gunner accuracy.

I did Not say this. I only stressed that there is a Cannon that has Zero dispersion value when it used in Flexible Defensive Installations. And that this Value makes it behave like a Sniper-gun.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

You failed to mention there are a number of Luftwaffe guns with the same entry.

I would really appreciate to tell me what this gun is. If it exist though and used in a bomber, why don't you fix this also?

Originally Posted by MicroWave

When proved to be false, you continue

Nope, i accidentally posted another Cannon wich happened to be first in my folder-sorting by date. So i clicked this instead of the correct one.
If you like it or not i won't loose sleep over it.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

2) AHA, but there is another Russian gun which is used on one plane.

Check what i wrote above. And again i did not say that it is used in More than one planes. I just gave an example of how many "unoticed" bugs exist in game. And you intent to do Zero to fix them.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

I performed ingame tests and didn't notice observable effect, if any when changing the variable. Something you could have done instead of barging in like a cowboy.

Wait! This is importand. So you say that by Changing the delta angle error you didn't notice any "observable" effect, right?
If you DO confirm this then i will have a test with people and then they can post here about their experience. I can send you an example also.
Also this will prove that you lack the appropriate knowledge to fix game's bugs.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

You also failed to mention that there is another gun with that entry that is used by a Luftwaffe plane.

See above. If yes then why Don't correct this also?

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Again, I'm not at liberty to discuss internal game mechanics with you.

See above. You gave no valid reason to deny my explanation about the values in the Bombs.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

I can confirm that some of the bomb parameters look odd. At this moment it is unclear how they affect the game. Therefore it is not clear if, and to what value they should be changed.

I am sure that many people will confirm this and i doubt that you haven't encounter this. Just do an Experiment yourself. Put targets and check the destructive radius of the bombs. Easy.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Yes they are considered as accurate. Until proven otherwise. The proof consists of performing (preferably repeatable) ingame tests and gathering historical info. Some physical interpolation and interpretation can be used if historical info is incomplete.

So BOTH the 2001 Values AND the current ones are accurate? So, 1 equals to 4 and 2 eguals to 8 ?

Originally Posted by MicroWave

We have significant amount of sources regarding pylon weights and pylon weights will be changed in 4.10. I believe it was announced already?

can you post any ? Yet again you have failed to provide any credible data for anything i have questioned you.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

I'm not familiar with the subject.

Ok, so you don't know about the "penetration" values of the bullets and the in-game damage. Anyone from TD who is experienced with this please?
I would really appreciate this info.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

No. Those numbers were changed by 1C/Maddox and I have no reason not to trust them without a concrete proof that they are wrong. See one of the answers above.

So BOTH Values the 2001 era AND the current ones are the Correct?
So 1 equals to 4, 2 to 8, etc ? See a couple of answers above.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

As I said, pylons weight are changed in 4.10, no point in discussing 4.09. I can also confirm that 15kg pylon weight is a bug and was brought to our attention by someone performing ingame tests.

At least you have admitted that you did an "approximation" based on how you "felt" about these values. We'll see when 4.10m comes out. Fair enought. It is the Only straight answer from you until now. Thank you for this.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

I beg to differ.

So you say you don't see any complains for Specific issues/bugs at all? Not even in the current thread?
What can i say if you cannot see.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

And what is right then? The rest is just assorted pile of complaints with zero value.

Right is what is Right, what Feels right over the years. Right is every issue that people gained data for. And if people complain over the years for Certain aspects and we Also have now Proof with Numbers that support their Feeling, there no other option than to be a Valid Complain, a Valid issue. Now why you don't like to address it or fix it it is not of my concern. I only pointed these out with In-Games Data which you cannot deny.

Originally Posted by MicroWave

No surprise.

Unfortunately not,