Friday 2010-12-03 Dev. update and Discussion

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I have built missions and campaigns for close to 10 years and helped develop mission builder tools/programs.

The FMB is improved a great deal from what I see. The sort functions alone will save hours of time building missions.

I suggest you take your negative banter to another forums. I doubt seriously it will be any better accepted elsewhere.

This is the problem exactly, you (and Nausicaa) are experienced mission builders and no doubt this update is like early Xmas for you. For those of us who are just getting into mission building or who have only dabbled, the FMB of IL-2 (let alone this new mission builder with all the added functionality) has a very steep learning curve. I look at this update and see the power of this new mission builder as added potential so far on the horizon for me that I doubt I'll ever really get there. We haven't actually seen Battle of Britain yet so I can't comment on what sort of tutorials or documentation will be present but I will say that Seeker is spot on about the quality of the interface and documentation of the current IL-2 mission builder. Quite plainly, it stinks for first-timers.

I haven't seen the rumors about the lack of dynamic campaigns in BoB but the existence of the dynamic campaigns has helped mitigate the FMB learning curve in IL-2 for many of us. The efforts of community members such as yourselves also helps with this. Thanks . Seeker raises a valid concern about BoB's replayability for mission building newbs, should the rumors prove accurate. Perhaps 1C should hire Lowengrin if there is a problem. If the rumor is true, it could turn off a large and potentially lucrative gamer segment that is needed to generate the revenue for all the expansions you and I wish for in BoB's engine.

It was not negative banter but concerns raised in good faith ( I'd be lying if I said I didn't share them).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Fafnir_6

This is the problem exactly, you (and Nausicaa) are experienced mission builders and no doubt this update is like early Xmas for you. For those of us who are just getting into mission building or who have only dabbled, the FMB of IL-2 (let alone this new mission builder with all the added functionality) has a very steep learning curve. I look at this update and see the power of this new mission builder as added potential so far on the horizon for me that I doubt I'll ever really get there. We haven't actually seen Battle of Britain yet so I can't comment on what sort of tutorials or documentation will be present but I will say that Seeker is spot on about the quality of the interface and documentation of the current IL-2 mission builder. Quite plainly, it stinks for first-timers.

I haven't seen the rumors about the lack of dynamic campaigns in BoB but the existence of the dynamic campaigns has helped mitigate the FMB learning curve in IL-2 for many of us. The efforts of community members such as yourselves also helps with this. Thanks . Seeker raises a valid concern about BoB's replayability for mission building newbs, should the rumors prove accurate. Perhaps 1C should hire Lowengrin if there is a problem. If the rumor is true, it could turn off a large and potentially lucrative gamer segment that is needed to generate the revenue for all the expansions you and I wish for in BoB's engine.

It was not negative banter but concerns raised in good faith ( I'd be lying if I said I didn't share them).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Here's the thing though, Mate. The guys who will actually put the time into building good solid missions (and more than one or two) will take the time to learn how to use this interface. It really isn't that hard if you take some time to seek out the resources. I'll grant that better tutorial info from 1c would be nice, but the simple fact is that most of the user made content for some time will be from the "old hands" anyway. Just my $.02.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Fafnir_6

This is the problem exactly, you (and Nausicaa) are experienced mission builders and no doubt this update is like early Xmas for you. For those of us who are just getting into mission building or who have only dabbled, the FMB of IL-2 (let alone this new mission builder with all the added functionality) has a very steep learning curve.

Fafnir, the most difficult thing in IL2 FMB is understanding the interface. But just sit down an afternoon with a good cup and coffee and go through great tutorials like Flying Nutcase's excellent site: http://www.il2-fullmissionbuilder.com/trains.php
...and I promise before the day is over you got it under your knee. Once you got that you'll see how very logic and simple it really is. I am confident that the basic philosophy of the FMB will stay the same in SOW, with added options, or interface commands for stuff that previously only existed in key board shortcuts (like the "rotate group" command I saw in the shortcuts in the screenshots I guess).
Trust me.....learning to fly your plane properly in the sim is a thousand times harder than the FMB.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

With the trigger,

Could that be added to an airbase that normally will remain asleep when the 'planned'route is followed so that if you are offcourse that there will be a scramble?

Trains with AAA that keeps silent even the ac are in range till it's too late?

With triggers i'm just thinking of running the track for ships convoys etc, so the delay doesn't need to be calculated on the mission time itself..if you want to make another turn into the holding and gather area.

[Trooper117]

A few years ago I found that full mission builder site mentioned above and never looked back.
As I explored further I asked even more questions at the many IL2 mission builder forums on how to address other specific issues.. you'll find the majority have all the answers you need and some very helpful people.
Next it was making sure I had to research all the technical data required like climbing/cruising/max speeds etc to make missions accurate, followed by historical info on a particular battle.. I tell you, it became a way of life for me plus enhanced my knowledge on WWII aviation.
Jump in and give it a go, its great fun, sometimes frustrating, but extremely rewarding!

[Stiboo]

Some great ideas



Yes, actually the FMB is very easy to use and understand, it just takes a huge amount of time to put a campaign together. I've managed to make 5 campaigns in about 3 years..

With research, building and playtesting a campaign a figure of about 100-150 hours of work goes into building my campaigns, this doesn't include the time spent on custom skins by skinners helping me.

The thing that wastes the most time is searching and placing objects, ie- to make airfields and towns look ' lived in ' if there was a randomiser as suggested else where that could populate places this would save many hours!

Some other button or command that said " place 30 German bombers in X formation here " would be another great idea.

I wonder if we'll be able to place custom sounds and images into a mission?


Waiting for Oleg to come online and give us some more info!

[FG28_Kodiak]

Hi Oleg,
can we group Objects together and save this group to disk for later use?

[slm]

..and it would be great if one could copy/paste thouse object groups.
And rotate them (like often possible in vector drawing programs) once placed on map.

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

Fafnir, the most difficult thing in IL2 FMB is understanding the interface. But just sit down an afternoon with a good cup and coffee and go through great tutorials like Flying Nutcase's excellent site: http://www.il2-fullmissionbuilder.com/trains.php
...and I promise before the day is over you got it under your knee. Once you got that you'll see how very logic and simple it really is. I am confident that the basic philosophy of the FMB will stay the same in SOW, with added options, or interface commands for stuff that previously only existed in key board shortcuts (like the "rotate group" command I saw in the shortcuts in the screenshots I guess).
Trust me.....learning to fly your plane properly in the sim is a thousand times harder than the FMB.

Cool! Thanks for the link . My point in this thread is that this sort of tutorial should have been included with IL-2 (perhaps not in the original release but certainly in a later patch). Here's hoping this sort of tutorial will show up integrated with BoB either in the initial release or in some future update.

Cheers and thanks again

Fafnir_6

[zaelu]

The FMB should be more "available" to new players or players with less time to study it thoroughly.

IL-2 FMB had many many limitations that were bypass by experienced builders only or even with external tools.

BoB shouldn't have this. BoB should have an explosion of new missions created by as many players as possible. And this is not possible with a FMB that looks like the insides of a nuclear bomb.

Let me make a comparison,

First 3ds max versions were pretty capable in pro's hands... but a lot of creativity was held off by it's hard interface. Once the interface had became more intuitive a lot of new creations had appear from the hands of people that normally would do nothing in the first versions.

FMB should have more appealing interface... those old WIN95 style windows can be changed in few minutes by an artist so they look more 2010 and not like a "oops... this looks dangerous, let's close it".
FMB should have a lot of buttons visible for quick access and not the necessity to click 2-3 menus and tick cryptic options. Contextual pop up menus, buttons, etc.

Take a look at modern game sandbox editors... many are a pleasure to work with and inspire creativity... sure a craw bar can beat nails in the head like a modern colorful rubberized handle hammer... but the kid that would help you normally is just not attracted by the job.

A good starting point would be a merge between DCS "FMB" and IL-2 FMB.