Zuti MDS Still Not Ready For Prime Time.

[WTE_Galway]

Let us bear in mind the exact nature of the "glitches" in 6DOF for IL2. The ones some people claim users will happily tolerate apparently. These include:

- gaps or holes that you can see right through when you view a cockpit from a different position

- many cockpits are just flat 2D textures which using a trick to look 3D with switches etc basically drawing them as viewed as they would appear from a center position. These look wrong when viewed from a different position.

Simple story is the mod is a good one and works, but the IL2 cockpits are not suitable for 6DOF and people WILL whine about the "bugs" if its released officially without fixing all those cockpits.

Plus its no great problem for people wanting to get 6DOF to install the mod anyway, so why bother.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Let us bear in mind the exact nature of the "glitches" in 6DOF for IL2. The ones some people claim users will happily tolerate apparently. These include:

- gaps or holes that you can see right through when you view a cockpit from a different position

- many cockpits are just flat 2D textures which using a trick to look 3D with switches etc basically drawing them as viewed as they would appear from a center position. These look wrong when viewed from a different position.

Simple story is the mod is a good one and works, but the IL2 cockpits are not suitable for 6DOF and people WILL whine about the "bugs" if its released officially without fixing all those cockpits.

Plus its no great problem for people wanting to get 6DOF to install the mod anyway, so why bother.

A good point, and I can live without "official" support for 6DOF. The "mod" support does great.

But the FOV issue NOT. And YES, it's really simple with access to code. I'm "assuming" nothing, I'm tired to change FOV settings in a lot of games, some in configs, and some OLD titles. And this feature isn't up to IL-2 because of nothing. It's just changing some parameter.

All the problem is in the "thin" line about the "standards"... I can read all the fanboyishm over TD, they do a great job... But people don't give customers the right to decide what are most needed and desired.

It's plain wrong. Live with that. If "officially" we have 6DOF as it is right now, in the case someone dislikes the "holes", simply don't use it. IL-2 isn't "Counter-Strike" for mature simmers, we don't cry all over the place about "hacks". With wider FOV, same thing.

Raise the "standards" to not deliver some nice features is wrong to this customer here. And I will not endorse the chorus for "please gimme more free content". I'm just assuming TD have the "official" support by Maddox Games to do improvements in IL-2. Well, a lot of people here I believe uses 6DOF and FOV Changer, but have some illogical afraid to put some points over light.

But if Maddox Games don't give more support for IL-2, don't solve the old widescreen support, why care at all about the talking about "mods" and "official patches"? Are all mods, but some of them gives really new functionalities and others are bounded to "standards"... The "non-standard" crew make IL-2 sell untill today.

[julian265]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Let us bear in mind the exact nature of the "glitches" in 6DOF for IL2. The ones some people claim users will happily tolerate apparently. These include:

- gaps or holes that you can see right through when you view a cockpit from a different position

- many cockpits are just flat 2D textures which using a trick to look 3D with switches etc basically drawing them as viewed as they would appear from a center position. These look wrong when viewed from a different position.

Simple story is the mod is a good one and works, but the IL2 cockpits are not suitable for 6DOF and people WILL whine about the "bugs" if its released officially without fixing all those cockpits.

Plus its no great problem for people wanting to get 6DOF to install the mod anyway, so why bother.

I still don't see what's wrong with having 6DoF as a difficulty setting (2DoF being "on", 6DoF "off"), so users and servers can choose if they enable it.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

I fly using FreeTrack and all the others folks who fly online with me believes wider FOV into IL-2 core will be great. Widescreen monitors are default today.

And the point here is: IT'S SIMPLE TO DO, if you have access to code and dev support.

Why don't include that? And why the subject is always ignored by TD? I don't understand.

I'm OK if something will cause a big trouble and work to be putted in IL-2, but simples things, it's beyond reason.

In what world better skis on some plane are a priority in a patch and widescreen full support isn't?!?!

Maybe i didn't explain it well enough, so let's go again. The planned features are desirable by everyone. It's the sequence these features are implemented that people disagree about. Again, just because a lot of people feel widescreen support is a priority doesn't mean that all of them feel the same.

EVERYONE wants widescreen support, but some want triggers or radio navigation or the regiane 2000 even more.

What TD does is work on things that are hard to do without official help (like triggers), while adding a few extras that can be done without official help in order to spice things up and add some variety (like the skis).

What we do is decide how badly we need certain features and then install what we need. If 6DOF is more important to me than the gladiator's skis, i will keep flying 4.09+mods, if the skis are more important to me than 6DOF i will go to 4.10 and wait until the 4.10 compatible mod pack is released. Everyone can choose for themselves, everyone is happy.

I still don't understand why you seem to think your opinion carries a bigger validity or represents the majority of the community. What if it doesn't? What if the rest of the community has a totally different opinion than the people you know? The guys here are not arguing with you because they want to disrespect you, they do it because what you say effectively sounds like this: "the features that i thik are a priority and my personal opinions carry a bigger weight than the rest of you". Maybe you don't mean it and it only seems that way due to the way you say it, but that's how it looks like and some people will find it a bit offensive.

I agree with you that for a 10 year old game i wouldn't mind to have a few extra features even with some glitches. What i disagree with is thinking that everyone feels the same way with us, because a lot clearly don't.

I think your main issue is the widescreen FOV support because you say it is prone to freezes. Well, it's not TD's job to fix that, but the guy's who released the widescreen mod. If that guy wants to he can contact TD, tell them how he does it and ask for their help and TD may decide to help him. However, in order for that to happen he would have to work under TD's quality control standards. Correction, not TD's, but Oleg's standards. It's very simple, mr Maddox says "i can help you make mods into official patches, but if you want my help you'll make it in a way i like too". You either agree to this and get his help in return, or you don't agree and do it by yourself.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by julian265

I still don't see what's wrong with having 6DoF as a difficulty setting (2DoF being "on", 6DoF "off"), so users and servers can choose if they enable it.

Without wanting to pull up older postings (additionally in a wrong direction in case of the threads initial topic), I want to make a statement to 6DoF:

The problematic part of 6DoF is not only the 'glitches' - its about gameplay and fairness. We are still internaly discussing this and are looking for a good way to implement a kind of realistic head movement - useable for ALL players, also those, who do not own a tracking device. This contains two major points:

1. realistic head movement: 6DoF as it is in mods, is far from realistic. Without going too much into detail - its generally too moveable.

2. 6DoF for everyone: Whatever solution we may find for pt.1, it must be possible to use this with a normal device, that every player has (much probably mouse and/or keyboard)

Its not just about enabling a few more axis.



As for the initial topic, I (we, TD) did agree with the thread starter and we are fighting the bugs. We see no need of blaming Zuti for sloppy work or anything, in fact, its simply a difficult issue and Zuti worked with us as good as he could to get the feature flawlessly into the game. The MDS in 4.10 will be much different in some details than the version available in mods.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

For the record I have a widescreen, its works okay, and I'll live if it isn't in 4.10, because I am looking forward to all the other unique features.

You have low quality standards. It's not "work ok", you need to go with notepad to edit a configuration file in IL-2 root and lost A BIG (by my high standards) of up/down view to maintain 90° of FOV and uses all monitor resolution.

I don't think it is "works okay" by high quality standards. If TD don't want to give this, it's really OK, but stop all the "we are the best", "the gitches/bugs are huge" and all this kind of thing. Do the work for free, be bounded to restrictions, but don't say a word about the modding community, because these guys deliver MDS, 6DOF and wider FOV. For me, 3 musts in IL-2, and more money to Oleg's pocket, even if he dislikes mods.

I'm out of this discussion. I did mods myself, by the way, for free, but for some other old title. I follow the mod scene, but here, in IL-2 world, peole "tend" to believe everybody "unknow" is a "pretensious idiot". Be more humble here.

My 2 cents.

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

If TD don't want to give this, it's really OK, but stop all the "we are the best", "the gitches/bugs are huge" and all this kind of thing.

You still did not understand the quality control thing. It is not about the end result only. It is about doing things in proper way too. If "fix" improves one thing, but introduces obvious bugs/glitches, it won't see the daylight until everything is resolved. Or in other words: Oleg won't approve what you are asking without fixing the cockpits first and period.

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

Do the work for free, be bounded to restrictions, but don't say a word about the modding community, because these guys deliver MDS, 6DOF and wider FOV.

I am sure TD wants to give widescreen and 6DOF support, however the problem is that they can't do that properly with available resources.

And there wouldn't be much comments regarding mod community, if some people stopped constantly using "Look, there is a mod, which does that. So I don't see why you can't do the same." as arguments.