Friday 2010-11-12 Dev. update and Discussion

[Freycinet]

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by The Kraken

Actually it was the allies, in late 1945. Blame them



This is primarily a legal and also a political issue. It has nothing to do with reason and common sense. That's why all these discussions here are completely pointless. Each and every argument has already been exchanged 10 years ago with Il2 and before that, with other sims.

And if user-made emblems are possible then it's a non-issue anyway.

I was just referring what Brando had said. I'd imagine Germany has had many opportunities to repeal such restrictions if they so chose to. I also understand that common sense and reason has nothing to do with this. That is the problem. It's completely idiotic to think that by banning a symbol, the idealogy will go away. If the German people and others allow it, the idealogy will flourish, swastika or not.


You are right that if user made emblems are indeed possible, everything is a moot point.

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

Oh, poor Freycinet. I think we've wasted his valuable time. Funny since it seems he has taken it upon himself to be the defacto thread police, making snarky, useless and needlessly critical comments towards others. If he had taken the time to try and read the debate at hand rather than coming up with his usual dribble, he would see that the original point was regarding whether or not 3rd parties could add their own markings, swastikas included. The inability to add custom markings was a new possibility that had not been brought up before.

Anyway, with that said, I think my point has been made and will leave this topic be. Thanks for the civil discussion guys. It didn't snowball as badly as I feared it might.
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[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

Dear me, the swastika debate.... yawn.

+1

[LukeFF]

Oleg, how will player control of the bombsight be handled? Will it be like it is in IL2, where it's the pilot and not the bombardier?

[csThor]

Two comments:

1.) Banning the swastika as it is done in Germy is not just a case of "If I don't see 'em, they don't exist". Suggesting this is insanely short-sighted. In fact banning the swastika is part of a complex of things which all are meant to give the state the means to keep the right-wing idiots under observation and slap them whenever they get too frisky. Unfortunately you can't ban idiocy and plain human stupidy so I'm afraid there'll be always people who were missing when common sense was handed out, people who actually believe that BS the neonazis spread.

Some people said that free speech is a valuable thing for a country. I agree. But I also believe that free speech ends there where other people are being directly threatened with physical harm just because of an ideology. There's a popular saying in Germany, one I very much agree with, which states "Nazism is not an opinion, it's a crime." And that isn't meant WRT the law.

2.) A few Friday updates back Luthier posted, that the russian Duma (parliament) had passed a new law months ago which also bans public display of NS symbols (mainly the swastika). The law itself is as clear as stirred mud and could be read in various ways so 1C decided not to risk anything and omit the swastika from its products. Oleg also stated that even allowing users or 3rd Party folks to add such symbols later might get 1C in trouble (in theory) but he wasn't yet sure what that would mean for the new game series.

[Necrobaron]

Originally Posted by csThor

Two comments:

1.) Banning the swastika as it is done in Germy is not just a case of "If I don't see 'em, they don't exist". Suggesting this is insanely short-sighted. In fact banning the swastika is part of a complex of things which all are meant to give the state the means to keep the right-wing idiots under observation and slap them whenever they get too frisky. Unfortunately you can't ban idiocy and plain human stupidy so I'm afraid there'll be always people who were missing when common sense was handed out, people who actually believe that BS the neonazis spread.

Some people said that free speech is a valuable thing for a country. I agree. But I also believe that free speech ends there where other people are being directly threatened with physical harm just because of an ideology. There's a popular saying in Germany, one I very much agree with, which states "Nazism is not an opinion, it's a crime." And that isn't meant WRT the law.

2.) A few Friday updates back Luthier posted, that the russian Duma (parliament) had passed a new law months ago which also bans public display of NS symbols (mainly the swastika). The law itself is as clear as stirred mud and could be read in various ways so 1C decided not to risk anything and omit the swastika from its products. Oleg also stated that even allowing users or 3rd Party folks to add such symbols later might get 1C in trouble (in theory) but he wasn't yet sure what that would mean for the new game series.

I don't blame them at all. Their hands seem tied.
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[WTE_Galway]

ah yes THAT boring old debate again

the truth ...

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Swastika

The swastika, based on Japanese shuriken, was invented by the Buddhists in the 1950s, and was used in their campaign to make Buddhism more interesting and more offensive. The swastika was originally a stylized Iron Cross, used by the Buddhists to inject Nazi chic into their statues and scriptures. The swastika was later used, in the 1980s and beyond, by Neo-Nazis in areas where the Iron Cross was banned from use. Ironically, the swastika is today considered more offensive than the Iron Cross, except in Austria where it is used as a peace symbol.

Germans and other Nazis refer to the swastika as a Hakenkreuz (hooker cross), because of its association with hookers, prostitutes and whores. The word swastika is banned in Germany because of its non-Germanic origins.

btw ... in reality, the swastika is also banned in other countries including Hungary, Poland and Brazil, not just the Soviet Union and Germany.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Finland still has the "hakaristi" or swastika in their Air Force flags and no-one has complained except the French There is a big difference though between the NSDAP used one and the one we have. A certain moustache man had not even founded his "ideals" when Finland had this emblem painted on the FiAF planes since 1918. The emblem was from Count Von Rosen, Sweden. Had been his personal lucky charm, originaly from India where it had been used for some 2000+ years in this purpose.

The roundel we have now is after war when the Allies said a hakaristi can not be left on planes so thus the change.

Now, let's let the dead horse finally rotten away

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

btw ... in reality, the swastika is also banned in other countries including Hungary, Poland and Brazil, not just the Soviet Union and Germany.

Actually, in the Soviet Union it was not banned by the law. Instead, the propaganda of Nazism was banned. So, one couldn't use swastika for that purpose, but freely could do that in historical or cultural context.

The ban law was adopted in Russia just about a year ago, as their government attempt to be "closer to the international community". Yet, for some reason no one told them, that stupidly coping a stupid ideas is no good at all...

[Richie]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

ah yes THAT boring old debate again

the truth ...



btw ... in reality, the swastika is also banned in other countries including Hungary, Poland and Brazil, not just the Soviet Union and Germany.

I think it may even be banned here in Canada, does anyone know?

It is..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_ille..._for_Halloween