Pony talk

[Erkki]

Mustang 3 and P-51D are only the 2 best fighters of the game. To me Fw 190 D-9 is only almost as good as the D5NT/NA. And to do that the 51 doesnt need any modifications...

If you put planes and players into historical situations flown historically, even without putting the worse pilots to German side, you can expect, and you will get, historical results.

If you test Ai vs. Ai I-16 type 24 is the best fighter of WW2

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by Erkki

Mustang 3 and P-51D are only the 2 best fighters of the game. To me Fw 190 D-9 is only almost as good as the D5NT/NA. And to do that the 51 doesnt need any modifications...

If you put planes and players into historical situations flown historically, even without putting the worse pilots to German side, you can expect, and you will get, historical results.

If you test Ai vs. Ai I-16 type 24 is the best fighter of WW2

Yes, I understand what your saying about the AI, maybe the issue is more with the AI dogfighting tactics than the plane itself, I mean i-16 would have dominated As I don't fly online in historical situations much I haven't tested it out thoroughly. I have had some success on dogfight servers with the P-51D-5, and it seems to be a consensus that here that the AI is not up to handling all the different types of aircraft in Il2. There is no substitute for a real pilot I guess. I still find the D model unstable, but I have never flown a real one, so until that day I'll never know! On a side note, is there any servers that fly historical missions (not just melee dogfights) on a regular basis, or any squads that do this?

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Yes, I understand what your saying about the AI, maybe the issue is more with the AI dogfighting tactics than the plane itself, I mean i-16 would have dominated As I don't fly online in historical situations much I haven't tested it out thoroughly. I have had some success on dogfight servers with the P-51D-5, and it seems to be a consensus that here that the AI is not up to handling all the different types of aircraft in Il2. There is no substitute for a real pilot I guess. On a side note, is there any servers that fly historical missions (not just melee dogfights) on a regular basis, or any squads that do this?

MAby you shoulda try some ultr@ thing. stability issues fixed, new API 0.50 cal and some other things

[winny]

Good documentary over on the BoP board. P51 history.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...577#post191577

EDIT : There's a great story of an American Pilot who stole a 109 and used it to escape after his '51 was shot down (Part 2)

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Erkki

Mustang 3 and P-51D are only the 2 best fighters of the game. To me Fw 190 D-9 is only almost as good as the D5NT/NA. And to do that the 51 doesnt need any modifications...

If you put planes and players into historical situations flown historically, even without putting the worse pilots to German side, you can expect, and you will get, historical results.

If you test Ai vs. Ai I-16 type 24 is the best fighter of WW2

While the latter is true, most on-line pilots (me included) that flew all three types againt one another (before mods) will tell you that in terms of speed/firepower/ease of use - they are lined up in the following way: Fw-190D (earlier version) > Tempest > P-51D (NA-20)

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Interesting bug

It isn't a bug. Added pylons cause you to loose some 20-30 kmph of the top speed. IIRC it was documented.

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

MAby you shoulda try some ultr@ thing. stability issues fixed, new API 0.50 cal and some other things

It didn't bother me nor many on-line P-51 pilots that were good at flying it.

Yes, it should have been fixed, but accurate as they are in un-moded game, one can also find advantages.

[Tempest123]

Great video Thor, that's some nice flying. Its pretty deadly if flown by an experienced pilot

[Romanator21]

You just need to spend more time in the P-51 and get to know its strengths.

The AI routines differ for each plane slightly (I believe Oleg had confirmed this sometime) and for some reason, the AI with the P-51 is particularly "stupid" - not attacking when the enemy on my six is right in front or him, for instance.

Using Il-2 Compare, the D is the fastest of the group, but not by much. The "problem" is that it's slow at accelerating so you have to be especially vigilant to not bleed off your speed. Try to fly it less like a Bf-109, and more like a P-38. Having a team-mate is very important in case you get in trouble.

I have been able to outrun almost anything in a P-51 if the trim is good. The only thing to give me a hard time (at low level btw) were La-7s and the dreadful I-185 type 71. I've outrun Spit25s without problem and have caught the "uber" Dora.

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

All that said, I feel it's great online if flown carefully. (Thor's video is proof of that!)

I've not flown a real Mustang myself, but someone who did has said that while it's fast as it should be, some aspects of the handling are not quite the same.

If you test Ai vs. Ai I-16 type 24 is the best fighter of WW2

It would be interesting to note that a particular Brewster Buffalo has more kills attributed to it than any other airframe used in WWII

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

You just need to spend more time in the P-51 and get to know its strengths.

The AI routines differ for each plane slightly (I believe Oleg had confirmed this sometime) and for some reason, the AI with the P-51 is particularly "stupid" - not attacking when the enemy on my six is right in front or him, for instance.

Using Il-2 Compare, the D is the fastest of the group, but not by much. The "problem" is that it's slow at accelerating so you have to be especially vigilant to not bleed off your speed. Try to fly it less like a Bf-109, and more like a P-38. Having a team-mate is very important in case you get in trouble.

I have been able to outrun almost anything in a P-51 if the trim is good. The only thing to give me a hard time (at low level btw) were La-7s and the dreadful I-185 type 71. I've outrun Spit25s without problem and have caught the "uber" Dora.

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

All that said, I feel it's great online if flown carefully. (Thor's video is proof of that!)

I've not flown a real Mustang myself, but someone who did has said that while it's fast as it should be, some aspects of the handling are not quite the same.



It would be interesting to note that a particular Brewster Buffalo has more kills attributed to it than any other airframe used in WWII

From Wikipedia ...

Chief Naval Test Pilot and C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight Capt. Eric Brown, CBE, DSC, AFC, RN, tested the Mustang in RAE Farnborough, and noted:

"The Mustang was a good fighter and the best escort due to its incredible range, make no mistake about it. It was also the best American dogfighter. But the laminar flow wing fitted to the Mustang could be a little tricky. It could not by no means out-turn a Spitfire. No way. It had a good rate-of-roll, better than the Spitfire, so I would say the plusses to the Spitfire and the Mustang just about equate. If I were in a dogfight, I’d prefer to be flying the Spitfire. The problems was I wouldn’t like to be in a dogfight near Berlin, because I could never get home to Britain in a Spitfire!”

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Great video Thor, that's some nice flying. Its pretty deadly if flown by an experienced pilot

Thanks. I do miss the good old days.

SoW better come out soon.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Romanator21

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

^^ This, is what it is all about.

[WTE_Galway]

@TEMPEST123

You are correct that the fuselage tank historically caused directional stability problems and as a result was really more of a ferry tank, acrobatic style maneuvers were forbidden when it still contained fuel and that tank was meant to be emptied first.

HOWEVER I am pretty certain that fuselage tank was first fitted on the P51B and C so any in-game stability issues resulting from the fuselage tank should show up on those models as well.