Ab 250 and 500 bombing

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Hi

Setting the bomb delay sets the AB canister release delay, depending on altitude and speed this effects the dispersal.

Try using the Stuvi bombsite, on the Ju88A4 I used to find diving at 480mph Stuvi set to 1200m and 5 second delay work ok on the AB500's

With Stukas I found the results to unreliable to take the payload on a mission, and forget level bombing with the 5 ringed AB1000.

Any Russian American similar armament works ok, probably too good

As already mentioned by Gunkan

AB bombs are too ineffective to use, you might as well take normal bomb load outs.

Add to that

German 2x SC 1000kg

Almost half as powerful as

Japanese 1x 800kg

German bombing loads have been seemingly nerfed over the years

Bug reports fell on deaf ears at 1c years ago after I reported the SC2000 bug, they fixed it, then the next patch come out and it was nerfed again and still is.

Edit> just dug up some old IL2 notes on SC2000, its been designated a demolition bomb in city areas.

Maybe resubmit the bug reports to Team Daidalos. They have fixed a few bugs here and there where it was possible in 4.09 so I'd expect similar in the future....

[Erkki]

Some of our guys found the German AB bombs useful in ONE attack. In ADW war, supplies from depots and outside map are carried by convoys and trains. Convoys are easy, typically max 12 guns for 40-ish vehicles, but trains... The flak is insane. On a good example 5 Fockes dive bombing from 6000m to 3000m, 3 were shot down and 1 suffered heavy damage, as a typical result.

It was found that when DIVE bombing from fairly high altitudes (release at 3000m+) to stay safe, properly timed AB500 would give comparable results with the SC500, and chance to hit and kill at least a single train car was better, and we switched to it. When the bomb is in vertical dive, the bomblet spread is circle shaped - with some practice it can be made to explode at about 500m, where direct hit would result in 1-2 train cars less killed than with SC500, but near-miss would kill always something, when it almost never did with the SC500.

[dduff442]

Assuming it's correct that the SC2000 was a demolition bomb, the HE content may have been quite small as a thick steel penetrator would constitute most of the weight. AB bomblets require a direct hit to have any effect, which can lead to wierd results if the dispersal is too great.

For those with the patience (I usually take a guess myself), the burst altitude can be calculated as follows:

B = D - (u*t + .5*g*t^2)

...where B is the burst alt, D the release alt, u the vertical speed (in metres per sec) at the time of release, g=9.81 m/s acceleration due to gravity and t is the fuze setting in seconds.

Taking KG26 Alpha's example:

D = 1200m
u = 480mph = 768kph = 213 m/s
t = 5

=> B = 1200 - (213*5 + 0.5*9.81*5*5) = 12m

For an a/c in level flight u=0, so an AB dropped from 750m with a 3 sec fuse will burst at:

B = 750 - (0 + 0.5*9.81*3*3) = 706m

Remember folks, no matter what it is there's always a way of making it less fun!

dduff

[dduff442]

Incidentally only 1.2m, or just 2400 tonnes of SC-2s were manufactured in the entire war according to Deichmann. Assuming the bursting container amounted to 1/3 the mass of the entire thing, that's equivalent to just 7200 AB-500s over almost 6 years on all fronts. They were always in scarce supply.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by dduff442

Assuming it's correct that the SC2000 was a demolition bomb, the HE content may have been quite small as a thick steel penetrator would constitute most of the weight. AB bomblets require a direct hit to have any effect, which can lead to wierd results if the dispersal is too great.

For those with the patience (I usually take a guess myself), the burst altitude can be calculated as follows:

B = D - (u*t + .5*g*t^2)

...where B is the burst alt, D the release alt, u the vertical speed (in metres per sec) at the time of release, g=9.81 m/s acceleration due to gravity and t is the fuze setting in seconds.

Taking KG26 Alpha's example:

D = 1200m
u = 480mph = 768kph = 213 m/s
t = 5

=> B = 1200 - (213*5 + 0.5*9.81*5*5) = 12m

For an a/c in level flight u=0, so an AB dropped from 750m with a 3 sec fuse will burst at:

B = 750 - (0 + 0.5*9.81*3*3) = 706m

Remember folks, no matter what it is there's always a way of making it less fun!

dduff

Woops that supposed to be 480 KPH not MPH

[dduff442]

...giving a burst alt of 411m, just about perfect.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Maybe resubmit the bug reports to Team Daidalos. They have fixed a few bugs here and there where it was possible in 4.09 so I'd expect similar in the future....

I hope adding the new content doesn't cause more bugs than we already have.

Debugging /correcting is less popular than adding new stuff for those actually doing it.

Possibly they don't have the tools or time to work out exactly how to correct these problems, unless they are really not bothered.

Its just strange when you compare the effect of different countries bombs the Germans have the worst for damage per Kg v Lbs when converted.

I have many maps for testing bombers and payloads effects from DM testing running flights over flak batteries and targets areas, thing have progressively got worse over the years with the addons/patches within the game core not just graphical bugs but AI routines and if anyone remembers the rubber bullets axis had with the 20mm this was a more easily spotted "bug" as it was a more commonly used weapon.

Old bugs need priority IMHO

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

I hope adding the new content doesn't cause more bugs than we already have.

Debugging /correcting is less popular than adding new stuff for those actually doing it.

Possibly they don't have the tools or time to work out exactly how to correct these problems, unless they are really not bothered.

Its just strange when you compare the effect of different countries bombs the Germans have the worst for damage per Kg v Lbs when converted.

I have many maps for testing bombers and payloads effects from DM testing running flights over flak batteries and targets areas, thing have progressively got worse over the years with the addons/patches within the game core not just graphical bugs but AI routines and if anyone remembers the rubber bullets axis had with the 20mm this was a more easily spotted "bug" as it was a more commonly used weapon.

Old bugs need priority IMHO

If anything I think a lack of time is the biggest issue... there is always more to do than there are people. Especially when time is volunteered. Nonetheless I would send your testing results and materials to them if you can... Oleg barely had time for the product in the later years but TD is taking it pretty seriously.

TBH I hadn't noticed a decrease in power. AB bombs have always been very hard to deploy but SC bombs have always gotten the job done for me. And I do a lot of bombing online. Not to say that some of the weapons have declined in effectiveness or have bugs now that they didn't before... just that it isn't that noticeable to me personally.

The difference between the buggered up MG151/20 and the fixed version was much more noticeable

[KG26_Alpha]

Just a quick revision on the AB bombing thing as I got my imperial and metric mixed up in an earlier post

Just redone some testing

Seems like the optimum effect using these bombs is strange and seems to have changed yet again.

Ju88A4 2 x AB1000 Stuvi set to 500kph 3000m bomb delay 3 seconds

This give maximum spread and damage still very poor results.

Ju88A4 4x AB500 Stuvi set to 500kph 3000m bomb delay 3 seconds

This give maximum spread and damage still very poor results.

Still testing though, you might want to try your selves and see if there's a better setup for the AB bombs

[IceFire]

The best AB bombing technique I know of is using something fast like a FW190. Sight the target, initiate your run... drop to 50 meters and about 4 seconds before the target do a shallow pull out and drop the bomb (using 2 second delay). The bomb will initially fly just above the target and disperse the bomblets in a very tight formation at the front of the target area. I've killed as many as 8 tightly grouped tanks doing this.

The timing is VERY hard and to this day I can only pull it off every so often.

Also skip bombing the AB1000 along the ground can produce some devastating results... or it can be a total dud too.