Friday 2010-10-01 Dev. update and Discussion

[Insuber]

Freycinet,

Well said. You argumented very well the opinion of many of us ...

[Baron]

+ 100

[philip.ed]

Freycinet, you neglect the fact that our views on how the sim should look are largely based around current models/sims. IMO, if SoW is to achieve graphically it should be the best in all departments (I'm focusing on graphics here) whilst your post sounds great, it is flawed in this sense.
For example, the current terrain doesn't look as good as RoF (or WoP although this is debateable). It may look different at Oleg's end, but from the shots shown to us that's my opinion. The grass and objects are completely different, they blew me away, but from a distance the terrain lacks realism IMO. I think this is due to the contrast of the tree colour with the texture colour, but also because the textures look quite low-res. I agree with the clouds; but whilst the texture may not need to be changed, the model of the clouds (IMO) is wrong, and based around my scientific evidence this is true. Editing the model should not be too much of a job I don't think, and in any case should not impact on FPS.
I think the FPS issue is a good point, but clearly in SoW it's the FM and DM models which will be limiting fps, as from what you've said they'll be impacting on the eye-candy available

An interesting concept; no doubt about that!

[Freycinet]

Most of the above posting was unintelligible to me, but I think I understood the last phrase:

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I think the FPS issue is a good point, but clearly in SoW it's the FM and DM models which will be limiting fps, as from what you've said they'll be impacting on the eye-candy available

I think there are some basic issues about making a flight sim that you don't understand.

Every single element of the sim takes processor cycles and therefore impacts FPS.

Rendering textures is one thing, FM, DM are other things, and several calculations and processes "under the hood" such as AI impact the fps as well. If we all had Craig supercomputers we could just pile it on, but we don't and we can't.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Freycinet

I think a couple of you neglect the fact that this sim actually has to be programmed and has to work with an acceptable number of frames per second on a typical high-end computer.

It isn't possible to just overlay a rendering of the cockpit with a rendering of the full view. Both of those need processor cycles to render and you can't just double processor cycles out of the blue.

Same with adding textures to the clouds. You can't just do that endlessly until you have a photographic rendering. Especially if you want the exact same clouds to be visible from all angles by 25 guys flying online. This is very different from an MSFS add-on hanging big flat photos of clouds up around you as you putter along on your own in a Cessna.

+1 Freycinet

Listen to that man, he speaks the truth. That semi transparent cockpit idea is technically very naive.

Same goes for the clouds. People forget too that those clouds-behaviors are probably linked to Oleg's new dynamic weather system. You have to find a way to find different forms that can shape-shift real time and be seen alike by all players, from all sides. Complex "true life" -like clouds would eat your computers alive.

[JVM]

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

That semi transparent cockpit idea is technically very naive.

Keep in mind not everyone is informed about real time programming constraints as well as you are...I understand you did not want to be pedantic and yet some may feel that way!

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

Same goes for the clouds. People forget too that those clouds-behaviors are probably linked to Oleg's new dynamic weather system. You have to find a way to find different forms that can shape-shift real time and be seen alike by all players, from all sides. Complex "true life" -like clouds would eat your computers alive.

It is quite true but so far the shape of the clouds we saw are still very much Il2-like and we can only hope at least their shape will be good (aaah the flat bottoms!) but I have no worries there as OM already stated they were many more shapes and that we did not see them yet!
One thing we can be sure will be glorious is the lighting (like in SC one of this update) which together with the very well made close-by "fluffy" effect literally transfigures the cloud aspect such that some did not remark that we still have 2nd gen Il2-type clouds!

It would be very interesting to see if OM is going to integrate dynamic weather at release, and how the cloud positions and statuses (shape, development) will be transmitted over the network...
logically in the same way than other objects like airplanes and their position, speed or damage status except that it can be done at a lot slower rate than for an airplane.
It can be imagined that each cloud type has been developed around a set of parameters (type, basic shape in type, position, orientation, development state...) which allows quasi exact rebuilding on each player machine locally...and Oleg has already proven how good his team was at writing netcode!

JV