BBC James Holland - Battle of Britain

[dduff442]

Originally Posted by RCAF_FB_Orville

I'm Irish and, as Danes or Dutch or Portugese etc will tell you, there are few things as irritating as coming from a small country with a large neighbour possessing an assured sense of its own grandeur.


Hello Duffiey! You're Irish? Ah well, bully for you. I'm English, and there are few things 'more annoying' than a Republican Paddy with a chip on his shoulder. Boo hoo hoo......"800 years of oppression" blah blah blah. Cry me a River, and GROW UP. Its 2010 now, no sympathy.

Heed not the Myth of the "Gentle Irish", dear reader. In fact, support for 'Herr Hitler', Anti-Semitism and Fascism was rampant amidst the "Emerald Isle" circa 1940.

A fact that they are only now beginning to acknowledge. The Irish are very fond of playing the "victim card", but in fact have been some of the worse persecutors that the world has ever seen. De valera, best pals with Herr Hitler, (Eire Signed the book of Condolence upon Hitlers Death! Awww, how sweet!) Sean Russel (Provo Leader) best pals.....Look, I could go on. And I will, if you provoke me further. Any Nazis in Eire? Well, you should know, since you have knowingly sheltered so many of these Mass Murderers, and did next to nowt to stop it. Wow....A culture of repression, cover ups, and guilt, how are the kids doing?

F*CK YOU.

Want a list, Paddy, Freedom Fighter?

Look, my advice to you (and Ratzinger) is divvent bother. Shut the f*ck up because you do not have a leg to stand on. We have done it before and we will do it again if any 'Man' of you threatens our Children. No mercy. End of.

Wow. Are you sure you cooked up all that indignation just while reading my post or had it been boiling away previously in the back of your mind? You seem to have a few frustrations to work off there.

Large countries patronise small ones. The small countries get defensive and the large neighbours get hurt feelings. These are fact to be filed next to the likes of the Treaty of Westphalia and the United Nations Charter in the minds of the Kissingers of this world.

Fascism's first (and last) blush in Ireland came in 1934. Eoin O'Duffy was thankfully the kind of half-crazed buffoon that even other half-crazed buffoons would hesitate to vote for. He went off to Spain where his force spent one day at the front before being declared officially useless.

Do some research on the number of Irish who actually worked for Nazi Germany in any capacity -- less than 20.

Compare that with the 45,000 Irish volunteers who fought with British forces alone in WWII. *Paddy* Finucane was one, along with 7 other BoB pilots if I remember the credits from 'Battle of Britain' right. Even *Paddy* Mayne (a Northern Unionist) played Rugby for Ireland.

Are these included among "the worst persecutors the world has ever seen"? I'd be interested in your list of the "many ... mass murderers" sheltered in Ireland after the war. I could name a few that found shelter in Britain but would never link the entire nation with Nazism because that would be simply stupid.

If you boil down what I wrote until only the essentials remain, you'll be left with: Britain had the means and the determination to defend her shores in 1940. Obviously my Jeremy Clarkson impression didn't go down well but I think your outpouring of itemised bigotry speaks for itself, frankly.

dduff

[KG26_Alpha]

Yawn

And my dads bigger than yours..................


Let return to the threads origins please.

[kendo65]

Decided to take this post off. Hopefully the situation is 'resolved'.

[kendo65]

...and just when I'd nailed Sternjaeger with my devastating logic ...

Anyone want to get this thing back on track?

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Ach, "Bigmouth strikes again"

Once more, it is the *Evil Englishmans* *TM* fault. I'm getting 'gang banged' as well.

Good points made by a few (particularity Blackdog, I respect and admire your intelligent input) The truth is that I literally do not have the strength any more. I literally CANNOT BE BOTHERED. Go over tae Pakistan, Good Irishman, don't see a lot of you there.

Yer talking tae a Geordie, Bonny Lad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtJeI4Q9nBE

Peace be with you!

Yes, I come in peace, as me Fatha did before me

[dduff442]

In order to further the cause of understanding between nations I'll acknowledge that it took courage for Britain to refuse the peace (i.e. on German terms) offered by Hitler. The Battle of Britain is one of the headline moments in recent British history and the courage of the airmen and fortitude of the civilians should not be discounted.

The defining trauma of modern Britain was the Somme, however. These battles have different meanings to different people but it's Paschendaele, Ypres, Mons and the Somme that resonate most deeply today for most.

dduff

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by kendo65

...and just when I'd nailed Sternjaeger with my devastating logic ...
Anyone want to get this thing back on track?

Hey, what about me?

As it happens, I had the opportunity to watch James Holland's broadcast again last night.
On a second viewing, I wasn't as impressed as on the first.
I found myself wondering whether the Luftwaffe pilot's diary was genuine, as the paper looked brand new. Not another 'Hitler's Diary' thing, surely?
Maybe I'm just getting cynical.

Also, the description of the 109's undoubted firepower was a bit misleading, as he made no distinction between the cannon's duration of fire relative to the m/g's, or the relative hitting power of eight m/g's relative to two once the cannon shells were gone, or how long two m/g's would need to be on target relative to eight in order to deliver the same punch.
I appreciate of course that it only takes one bullet to kill the pilot, or hole the cooling system, but the comparison was regarding firepower.

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Hey, what about me?

Ok, we'll 'share the glory'

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

As it happens, I had the opportunity to watch James Holland's broadcast again last night.
On a second viewing, I wasn't as impressed as on the first.
I found myself wondering whether the Luftwaffe pilot's diary was genuine, as the paper looked brand new. Not another 'Hitler's Diary' thing, surely?
Maybe I'm just getting cynical.

I have it on tape myself - may well watch it again.

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Also, the description of the 109's undoubted firepower was a bit misleading, as he made no distinction between the cannon's duration of fire relative to the m/g's, or the relative hitting power of eight m/g's relative to two once the cannon shells were gone, or how long two m/g's would need to be on target relative to eight in order to deliver the same punch.
I appreciate of course that it only takes one bullet to kill the pilot, or hole the cooling system, but the comparison was regarding firepower.

I'm still slightly of the opinion that the 109 was just ahead in 1940 - for the two reasons of fuel injection and cannon. As you say though there are many factors to take into account in comparing the armament.

Also, I know that the Merlin was fitted out with some device that largely remedied the negative g issue, but not sure if that was done before the end of the battle?

Fortunately whatever slight (technical) edge the 109 may have had it was not of a sufficient degree to be anywhere near decisive - the deciding factors in most situations being pilot skill and the tactical situation. Any reasonably experienced British pilot would maximise the superior turn rate of their aircraft and half roll to dive after 109s.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Also, I know that the Merlin was fitted out with some device that largely remedied the negative g issue, but not sure if that was done before the end of the battle?

'Miss Schillings Orifice' didn't appear until March 1941 as far as I can tell.
Beatrice Schilling was a scientist at Farnborough and designed a modification to the carburettor float amounting to a hole the size of a 'threepenny bit' punched through the float.
Having to invert prior to steep dives was necessary right up to this point.

I don't necessarily disagree about the 'Spit v 109' argument, but like I said previously, it depends on which yardstick you judge them by.
Using the 109's machine guns for sighting deflection shots prior to using the cannon would make a devastating combination. 55 seconds worth would allow for a great deal of sighting for cannon accuracy, assuming that the Spit or Hurri wasn't already beginning to use its tighter turning circle to make any deflection shot more and more difficult.
As a combination of weapons for a bounce attack without being observed....well I find out about this for myself all the time when online.