FAQ-QUESTIONS,release date,system specs, for CoD

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by The Kraken

Not really There's no technical reason that limits the FOV

yes there sure is, and its called "Gnomonic distortion"

like all current flight simulator projects i know of (so far) IL-2 uses the Gnomonic projection method, and most likely BoB will do as well, in which case we will meet the same limitations. to explain this phenomena a little further, and the limitations it includes, i'll give some direct quotes by "lurch" at the zoo 4 or 5 yrs ago

Originally Posted by Lurch

IL-2 uses Gnomonic projection for the 1e person view. This is exactly the same as an image produced by a so-called "rectilinear" lens used by architectural photographers. All straight lines are always drawn straight, no matter where they appear in the view. But the main drawback is the severe radial distortion in wide fields of view. To visualize this kind of projection, imagine a transparent globe of the Earth, with a tiny light bulb located in its exact centre. Place a very large, perfectly flat sheet of paper against the globe, say with the contact point of the sheet and the globe at the location of your home town. Now turn on the light, and observe the lines of latitude/longitude and coastlines, etc. as projected onto the paper.

Within relatively close distances of your home, all will look pretty normal. But more distant regions will become progressively enlarged and stretched. In fact, it's impossible to map a full hemisphere (180 degrees) or more of a globe. Any place that's located 90 degrees from the centre of projection (your home town in this example) will appear to be projected infinitely far away on the sheet of paper.

So as you can see, with the Gnomonic projection there is an absolute limit of 180 degrees (a 90 degree radius from the centre of projection) for any projected view. In practice a more realistic limit, after which radial distortion becomes utterly extreme, would be about 120 degrees. But even that looks pretty weird. As I recall, the MS Flight Sim line allows such radically wide FOVs (with the associated distortions on the widest views).

and

Originally Posted by lurch

A little-appreciated aspect of this is the variation of image scale across a wide angle view generated with the Gnomonic projection. If one were to generate a near-180 degree wide view, the central portions would be in effect infinitesimally small. A plane crossing the field would be a wee point in the central parts of the view, but would expand to a huge, near arrow-like streak as it approached the edge of the view.

so unless a different way is developed to model the 3D world in BoB/il2, we will meet the exact same limitations

Originally Posted by lurch

I'm sure you've all seen the effects of Gnomonic distortion while playing IL-2. The most readily observable symptoms are the enlarged oval versions of circular objects which appear toward the edges/corners of the screen when using the wider FOV settings, especially the widest.

so as you can see, there sure is a reason why 90 degree is currently the max FoV, and anything higher brings in significantly further distortions

if you have any specific technical information that contradicts this and makes an alternative hypothesis i'd love to hear it

note: there are artificial ways you can force much higher FoV's then 90', but they obviously produce MAJOR distortions. some gamers in 1e person shooters use those to artificially increase their peripheral vision and get an advantage over their opponents, but that again is for "gamers gaming the game". for il2/BoB better peripheral vision is obviously needed to equal what a real pilot could see from the cockpit, but there is no real alternative then getting more monitors side by side (with each able to display max 90 FoV you could combine 3 widescreens set at 60 FoV to get your total of 180 FoV)

Originally Posted by The Kraken

As Blackdog has said, SoW will probably feature higher field of view settings now that widescreens are common, and I expect we'll see 120° or even more as an option.

programing a game for widescreen resolutions is a completely different issue (from FoV), and hopefully BoB will indeed have those directly available in the settings

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by zapatista

so as you can see, there sure is a reason why 90 degree is currently the max FoV, and anything higher brings in significantly further distortions

if you have any specific technical information that contradicts this and makes an alternative hypothesis i'd love to hear it

You posted the specific technical information that contradicts this:

"In practice a more realistic limit, after which radial distortion becomes utterly extreme, would be about 120 degrees. But even that looks pretty weird."

I use 112º and the distortion is acceptable by my standards. The "looks pretty weird" is TOTTALY SUBJECTIVE, not some kind of technical limit. We can have larger FOVs than 90º, even 90º have some distortion, it's the life.

And one simple point: if you are using some kind of head tracking, the distortion is easily overcomed, because you can focus in the object of interest. I know it's BETTER for me to have more than 90º of FOV using the actual projection system, and I know that isn't any "technical" issue in use 112º of FOV, because I use it.

It's simple a matter of taste. If you don't like the "utterly extreme" distortion, use 90º as maximum FOV. I like tu use 112º. And have this option available will be nice and NEVER can be stated as "gaming the game", because my vision inside a real cockpit have a larger FOV than 90º...

People with 3 monitor are "gaming the game"?!?!?! People with HT devices are "gaming the game"?!?!?!! I don't get this point...

[matsher]

[QUOTE=zapatista;182287]you'r asking your question in the wrong location, having it mixed up in the bottom of an "irrelevant BoB question thread" means it is unlikely to get noticed, however...

there is a technical reason why most games in recent years have a max 90 degree FoV when looking at a single display, it has to do with the inherent limitations in how the game is programmed and the physics of the game engine itself. this has been discussed a number of times in several flightsim forums over the years, and that is about what it amounts to.


Thanks Zapat, Where would you suggest I put this post to see if I can get some proper answers. The FOV question is not the most NB one for me, cause that is certainly achievable and is already possible in IL2.

My real interest is in the in cockpit vs wonderview question. As I think that it is a fundamentally new concept in balancing playablility and immersion.

Please redirect me if you know, thanks
Mat

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by zapatista

you'r asking your question in the wrong location, having it mixed up in the bottom of an "irrelevant BoB question thread" means it is unlikely to get noticed, however...

there is a technical reason why most games in recent years have a max 90 degree FoV when looking at a single display, it has to do with the inherent limitations in how the game is programmed and the physics of the game engine itself. this has been discussed a number of times in several flightsim forums over the years, and that is about what it amounts to.

Originally Posted by matsher

Thanks Zapat, Where would you suggest I put this post to see if I can get some proper answers. The FOV question is not the most NB one for me, cause that is certainly achievable and is already possible in IL2.

My real interest is in the in cockpit vs wonderview question. As I think that it is a fundamentally new concept in balancing playablility and immersion.

Please redirect me if you know, thanks
Mat

Mat,

just start a brand new thread for the FoV issue if you want to discuss it, and maybe phrase the thread tittle as a question to oleg if you want to attract his attention to it

btw il2, like most games currently still on the market, is not programmed for widescreen and does not perfectly implement it with the ini hack (but it does cause the widescreen monitor to be filled with video/image during game play, giving the illusion of correctly implemented widescreen FoV (it cuts a strip off the bottom and top of the screen to do so)

there are several specific technical reasons for those factors, and many long term il2 folks will know the reasons for this, and i think you can be fairly safe oleg has programmed BoB for widescreen resolutions rather then 5:4 or 4:3 ratio's

for the "cockpit vs wonderview question" (and having a new version of wonderview requested from oleg), thats again another thread you can start. keeping threads mainly focused on one topic (if you want oleg's attention drawn to it and have a chance of getting him to respond, which often he does), then the more articulate and specific you can be the better (with illustrations and examples even if possible, like the person who recently posted the opaque wonderview dials did))

[matsher]

Originally Posted by zapatista

Mat,

just start a brand new thread for the FoV issue if you want to discuss it, and maybe phrase the thread tittle as a question to oleg if you want to attract his attention to it

btw il2, like most games currently still on the market, is not programmed for widescreen and does not perfectly implement it with the ini hack (but it does cause the widescreen monitor to be filled with video/image during game play, giving the illusion of correctly implemented widescreen FoV (it cuts a strip off the bottom and top of the screen to do so)

there are several specific technical reasons for those factors, and many long term il2 folks will know the reasons for this, and i think you can be fairly safe oleg has programmed BoB for widescreen resolutions rather then 5:4 or 4:3 ratio's

for the "cockpit vs wonderview question" (and having a new version of wonderview requested from oleg), thats again another thread you can start. keeping threads mainly focused on one topic (if you want oleg's attention drawn to it and have a chance of getting him to respond, which often he does), then the more articulate and specific you can be the better (with illustrations and examples even if possible, like the person who recently posted the opaque wonderview dials did))

Thanks for your suggestion Zap,
I will try my luck for tomorrows update... I know that Olegs reads that... At least until the endless debates on menutia gets into full swing... I have prepared a few screenshots to highlight my points as you suggested... I hope to get an answer from the man himself. Take care. Mat

[nearmiss]

I can understand the apprehensions, especially about System specs.

In my own situation, my 24" 1920x1200 resolution monitor just went out. I have to replace it.

Everywhere I look I see 1920x1080P resolution monitors and the prices are very reasonable. Also, Oleg's updates appear to be 1920x1080 resolution when you drill down on them.

A monitor needs to be big for me to see. I doubt seriously I am the only person with such a problem.

This time I plan to go up on screen size to see better. I plan to go to a 25.5 or 27" monitor with 1920 x 1200 monitor. At least, this way I will be able to lower my screen size to the 1920x1080 to cover many possible resolutions. The prospects of having black borders at the top and bottom to accomodate the 1920 x 1080 really don't suit my interests.

If that is the way of it, so be it. Then of course the price for 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors is $100-200 USD greater than the same monitor in 1920 x 1080 resolution.

Then of course, if Oleg allows you to push the resolutions out high and wide I'll be in good shape.

[dduff442]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I can understand the apprehensions, especially about System specs.

In my own situation, my 24" 1920x1200 resolution monitor just went out. I have to replace it.

Everywhere I look I see 1920x1080P resolution monitors and the prices are very reasonable. Also, Oleg's updates appear to be 1920x1080 resolution when you drill down on them.

A monitor needs to be big for me to see. I doubt seriously I am the only person with such a problem.

This time I plan to go up on screen size to see better. I plan to go to a 25.5 or 27" monitor with 1920 x 1200 monitor. At least, this way I will be able to lower my screen size to the 1920x1080 to cover many possible resolutions. The prospects of having black borders at the top and bottom to accomodate the 1920 x 1080 really don't suit my interests.

If that is the way of it, so be it. Then of course the price for 1920 x 1200 resolution monitors is $100-200 USD greater than the same monitor in 1920 x 1080 resolution.

Then of course, if Oleg allows you to push the resolutions out high and wide I'll be in good shape.

I got an ASUS VW266H earlier this year and I have to say it's an outstanding gaming monitor for the price.

Max resolution is 1900x1200 but it will support any lower resolution when configured appropriately -- very handy for future-proofing a system. If you really like anti-aliasing but your graphics card is struggling with FPS on a given game, you can just drop to a lower resolution. You won't get the full screen area but neither will the monitor distort the image (even for 4:3, say) or resort to dithering. Whatever monitor you buy, I'd recommend picking one with a similar feature (usually called aspect control).

dduff

[nearmiss]

I ordered the same monitor this morning right after I posted. I"d say you were ESP me. LOL

Amazon for $277 - $30 Asus rebate + 26.00 shipping = $273

It is for sale at Frys $319 plus 8.25% sales tax. I saved $72.32 w Amazon.

It is very good to hear a good review on it from you.

Thanks

[bf-110]

Oh yes.

Someone here said there will be some ground vehicles that player will be able to control.
What about AAs?It would be awesome to engage a wave of fighters strafing your AA.

[winny]

Originally Posted by bf-110

Oh yes.

Someone here said there will be some ground vehicles that player will be able to control.
What about AAs?It would be awesome to engage a wave of fighters strafing your AA.

I think I read somewhere that AA was controlable..