nazi info real or fiction?

[robtek]

No Dozer,

the bombing of civilians is a war crime!
It really doesn't matter is they are "collateral damage" or attacked directly.
In our perfect hindsight we know how militarily meaningless 95% of the bombing were.
What brought germany to the knees in the end, regarding to bombing, was the destruction of the refineries and transport ways.
I.e. the fighter production was at its peak at 44-45, the panzer production had its peak at 44.
The night bombing by the raf was a pure terror weapon as not the industrial concentrations but the city centers were targeted.
Dresden, i.e. is not different from hiroshima or nagasaki, except it took longer, was even less a military target and the longevity of damage.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by robtek

No Dozer,

the bombing of civilians is a war crime!
It really doesn't matter is they are "collateral damage" or attacked directly.
In our perfect hindsight we know how militarily meaningless 95% of the bombing were.
What brought germany to the knees in the end, regarding to bombing, was the destruction of the refineries and transport ways.
I.e. the fighter production was at its peak at 44-45, the panzer production had its peak at 44.
The night bombing by the raf was a pure terror weapon as not the industrial concentrations but the city centers were targeted.
Dresden, i.e. is not different from hiroshima or nagasaki, except it took longer, was even less a military target and the longevity of damage.

So...was Churchill a war criminal then?

[AndyJWest]

So...was Churchill a war criminal then?

If you take international law as it stood at the time, there might be a case to suggest this. Given Churchill's precipitate attempts to distance himself from the 'area bombing campaign' after the war, one might question whether he thought so himself.

The question is rather moot anyway. He's dead. Not much chance of bringing him to court. I can think of one or two more recent politicians that it might be worth looking at though...

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Splitter

So...was Churchill a war criminal then?

Churchill was under pressure from the Americans to shift the bombing effort away from cities and towards oil supplies and transport to assist the assault on Germany.

Churchill was also under pressure from Stalin to increase the area bombing of cities, presumably as a scorched earth policy meant a more pliable destroyed Germany post war for Stalin to control.

In the end Churchill went with Stalin wishes, not the Americans, though he later seems to have had second thoughts about appeasing Stalin.

According to Speer, postwar, if Churchill had listened to the Americans and prioritized oil supplies as a target the war may have finished 6 months early.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Churchill was under pressure from the Americans to shift the bombing effort away from cities and towards oil supplies and transport to assist the assault on Germany.

Churchill was also under pressure from Stalin to increase the area bombing of cities, presumably as a scorched earth policy meant a more pliable destroyed Germany post war for Stalin to control.

In the end Churchill went with Stalin wishes, not the Americans, though he later seems to have had second thoughts about appeasing Stalin.

According to Speer, postwar, if Churchill had listened to the Americans and prioritized oil supplies as a target the war may have finished 6 months early.

First, I hope no one took my post which you quoted as me thinking Churchill was a war criminal. I was asking the question to someone who had made a certain assertion.

Second, I didn't realize the Stalin connection, but it fits. I do know (my understanding at least) that the Germans bombed a British city first, apparently by mistake. The Brits of course did not know this so they bombed Berlin. In reply, Hitler vowed to wipe English cities off the map starting with London.

That Stalin would want to continue to bomb cities is not surprising. He had big post-war plans for Europe. Obviously.

This all leaves me thinking of where the turning point in the war in Europe might have been. Every contest has moments where momentum turns, sometimes several.

Splitter

[Novotny]

I'm reading through Barbarossa, by Alan Clark again. When I get to the right bit, I'll tell you when the turning point was. Somewhere near Stalingrad I should think.

[Xilon_x]

Loock this strange photo are U.F.O.?
are aliens?
are secret tecnology?
are laser?

[MaxGunz]

Nothing like detailed pictures to show a point. Too bad there aren't any....

[Daniël]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

Loock this strange photo are U.F.O.?
are aliens?
are secret tecnology?
are laser?

Those are ice cristals in the air which reflect light. I've read it somewehere. So it's not a super weapon