nazi info real or fiction?

[rakinroll]

After seing successful jet fighter prototype in early war days and rocket technology which was just a dream for other countries, it is far from being fiction for me. Yes, it is possible i think.

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by rakinroll

After seing successful jet fighter prototype in early war days and rocket technology which was just a dream for other countries, it is far from being fiction for me. Yes, it is possible i think.

In case you hadn't noticed, both rockets and jets were being worked on elsewhere.

The whole thing is utter drivel, based on 'evidence' cooked up in the 1950s to sell books to the gullible. Sadly, the internet provides an easy medium for nonsense like this to find more suckers...

[Splitter]

Some anti-gravity thing? NO way.

But the US did do some pretty extensive research on saucer shaped aircraft (some got off the ground) and there were a lot of "strange sightings" of such aircraft in the 50's. In my mind, those things mean that the US got some knowledge out of WWII and tried to expand on it. How successful were the US scientists? We still don't know.

There are MANY problems that would need to be worked out with saucer shaped aircraft but also some advantages if you could work out the problems. Again though....who knows?

What is absolutely certain is that the US has put some pretty radical aircraft in the air since WWII. How much came from the Nazis? Hard to say, but we know we got a lot of rocket technology from them.

Also, I guess it is important to note that the Nazis put a ton of resources into "super weapons" that either never worked or did not return results commensurate with the resources devoted. Clearly, Germany had some very brilliant scientists working on their end whether their programs were productive or not.

Splitter

[bf-110]

I guess that´s a bit too much even for a "what if..."

[AndyJWest]

There are MANY problems that would need to be worked out with saucer shaped aircraft but also some advantages if you could work out the problems. Again though....who knows?

And what exactly are these supposed advantages?

Germany had some very brilliant scientists working on their end whether their programs were productive or not.

True. But none of them have ever been shown to have worked on 'flying saucers'.

Actually, I think a lot of the later 'super-weapons' programs of Nazi Germany were driven more by ideological zeal and the forlorn hope for a 'war-winning-weapon' than by any real understanding of technological, logistic and military requirements. While the 'brilliant scientists' were still at work, the Nazi machine could use them as a symbol of hope, and no sane scientist would admit their aims were futile - a short trip to the Eastern front would be the likely result.

[Splitter]

Stealth was a possible advantage. Also vertical take off/landing and rapid change of direction in flight. If the whole craft is a "lifting body" in any direction, the possibilities are promising. From what I understand, however, the proper propulsion and stability systems were not available. I have only seen real evidence of very short, low level flights from American saucers.

Would it surprise me to learn that the US has a flying saucer in some super secret "X" project? Not really. The US has thrown a lot of resources at different aircraft projects, some seemingly far fetched, in the last 50 years.

Invisible bombers were once a pipe dream. Is the Aurora spy plane real and functional? What exactly does it look like? Where did the technology originate? We dunno. Many things are possible.

Definitely the Nazis held onto some far fetched hopes for their super weapons. Some of these super weapons programs were years ahead of their time and some were pure fantasy. Most took away so many resources they helped the Allies win the war.

The Nazi rocket program was ahead of its' time clearly, but it put us (humans) in orbit around a decade later and lead directly to ICBM's. Nazi stealth programs were ahead of their time but probably led to some insights into stealth technology that put the US ahead in that race. Even their jet technology was ahead of the Allies but was used improperly for too long (blitz bomber vs. interceptor). Both American and Soviet swept wing fighters in Korea are thought to have their origins in WWII German designs. Was the X-15 a rocket plane and did the Germans actually field rocket planes in WWII?

Think about it, one of the biggest parts of the end game to WWII was the race between the Americans and Soviets to capture/attract German scientists. Both sides in what became the Cold War knew their was advanced knowledge there to be had for whoever got to it first.

Still, most of the programs were to make the Fuhrer happy and "keep hope alive"...which worked out well for the Allies. Thank goodness.

Splitter

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Splitter

From what I understand, however, the proper propulsion and stability systems were not available. I have only seen real evidence of very short, low level flights from American saucers.

AFAIK ... the only operational one was Canadian and by the early 60's the best it could do is get a few centimetres off the ground

This sort of ludicrous mythical "Indianna Jones" technology is more suited to a Xbox version of Crimson Skies then a serious flight sim.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

AFAIK ... the only operational one was Canadian and by the early 60's the best it could do is get a few centimetres off the ground

This sort of ludicrous mythical "Indianna Jones" technology is more suited to a Xbox version of Crimson Skies then a serious flight sim.

I remember seeing footage of saucers with US markings hovering and going over some terrain, but I also remember most of them being tethered lol.

Agreed that for WWII technology there was never anything even close to functional and such things are better left to arcade type games.

Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe was a great game even it didn't go as far as to include saucers lol.

Splitter

[AndyJWest]

Stealth was a possible advantage. Also vertical take off/landing and rapid change of direction in flight.

Why would it be more stealthy - even accepting that such concepts were relevant during WW 2, which is unlikely - I've seen no evidence whatsoever that the Nazis understood stealth technology. And what has 'vertical takeoff' and 'rapid change of direction' got to do with the known characteristics of saucer-shaped aiircraft?

Would it surprise me to learn that the US has a flying saucer in some super secret "X" project?

It doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't be surprised if the US had a flying saucer. It would surprise me if they did.

Think about it, one of the biggest parts of the end game to WWII was the race between the Americans and Soviets to capture/attract German scientists.

Was it? Can you back this statement up with evidence? I thought that the primary objectives during the 'end game' was to (a) destroy German military opposition, and (b) establish control over territory. Given that almost all significant military/technological advances made in the succeeding few decades were based on knowledge already in the hands of the Allies, chasing after a few scientists and technicians may have been a worthwile sideline, but it was hardly a priority.

Yes, the US 'captured/attracted' Werner Von Braun, and later landed a man on the Moon. But the Soviet Union didn't capture him, and still got a man into space before the Americans. Then again, they had been working on liquid-fuel rockets before the Nazis anyway.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Why would it be more stealthy - even accepting that such concepts were relevant during WW 2, which is unlikely - I've seen no evidence whatsoever that the Nazis understood stealth technology. And what has 'vertical takeoff' and 'rapid change of direction' got to do with the known characteristics of saucer-shaped aiircraft?


It doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't be surprised if the US had a flying saucer. It would surprise me if they did.

Was it? Can you back this statement up with evidence? I thought that the primary objectives during the 'end game' was to (a) destroy German military opposition, and (b) establish control over territory. Given that almost all significant military/technological advances made in the succeeding few decades were based on knowledge already in the hands of the Allies, chasing after a few scientists and technicians may have been a worthwile sideline, but it was hardly a priority.

Yes, the US 'captured/attracted' Werner Von Braun, and later landed a man on the Moon. But the Soviet Union didn't capture him, and still got a man into space before the Americans. Then again, they had been working on liquid-fuel rockets before the Nazis anyway.

Oh my, large questions maybe not suited to this forum.

RADAR was used during WWII. The Germans were developing the Horten bomber which was less visible to RADAR with it's design that was, surprise, not unlike the B2 Stealth bomber (which was not unlike the YB-49 right down to the wing span).

RADAR was a HUGE reason that the Brits won the Battle of Britain. The Germans knew this eventually and even employed their own RADAR systems. It is only logical that they would have been aware of the advantages of avoiding/delaying detection by RADAR.

Why would the Canadians, Americans, and Brits have put resources into saucer research after WWII if they did not think their were some advantages to the shape? would it be advantageous for an airship to be able to take off vertically? I guess so, we got the Harrier eventually. Would there be an advantage to an aircraft with a very low stall speed? I guess, many aircraft have that as a design element. Ability to rapidly change directions important? I guess, we even throw in vectored thrust these days.

If you do not know about the race to capture German scientists, it would be an interesting research project for you. No offense to the Russians on this board, but I am sure they are aware that there was a special antipathy between the Soviets and Germans in WWII. If any two sides fought an all out, no holds barred war, those two nations did. It would be an understatement to say that there was no love lost.

German scientists (and soldiers and many of importance) did everything they could to surrender to American or British forces rather than to Soviet forces. Quite frankly, they were afraid of what might befall them under the Soviets....probably because of the way the Germans had treated the Soviets during the war.

One of the biggest "prizes" that the Soviets garnered from the German technology and scientists/technicians they captured was their aircraft designs. There was a reason the Soviets beat the Americans to the punch in fielding the Mig 15 in Korea. It went back to what they captured in WWII from Germany. The Americans copied the soviet design later just like the Soviets copied the American nuclear and rocket technology (the rocket technology for the Americans was greatly enhanced by the Germans as you know).

Understand that the Americans and soviets did not trust each other. The Brits trusted the Soviets even less. The future Cold War was already brewing. Some Americans (and Brits) wanted to take the war all the way into the Soviet Union and get rid of Stalin. In Europe, the Brits and Americans raced the Soviets for the prizes of war at the end. The Soviets got to Berlin first....and then we had the Berlin airlift as a direct result a few years later.

There was real competition at the end of the war, once it was decided, to procure the best prizes in preparing for the future.

I'm an American and of course proud of my country over all. But, that doesn't mean that I can discount the effectiveness of the Axis powers in certain areas, like scientific advances. They weren't dummies and we were not ahead in all areas. The victors did all they could to reap the rewards.

Splitter