Make the game more "believabale"

[KnightFandragon]

That Puma's 50mm was put there to engage tanks. The thing in the game is the Puma is way to accurate when its on the move. Its like the best Anti Tank Vehicle in the game, its cheaper then dirt, faster then that French TGV Train plus it has more ammo then ti really should. I swear I read somewhere it only had 12 rounds. In game it needs to be made stupid inaccurate to discourage people from using it like a guerilla vehicle....they just run it in circles around the enemy tank and blow the hell out of everything. Atleast it has butter for armor so it dies...just nothing can ever track it before it kills the target.

[Zeke Wolff]

The Sd.Kfz. 234/2 "Puma" was not designed to engage tanks - it got a 5 cm KwK 39/1 main gun so that it could defend itself when and if it was needed to do so. It´s main defense were its high speed and it was a recon vehicle, and as a such, not meant to fight other vehicles.

It carried 55 rounds for it´s main 5 cm gun, and 1,050x7.92mm rounds for its coaxial MG 42 machine gun.

The later Sd.Kfz. 234/4 which carried a 7.5cm PaK40 L/46 main gun carried only 12 rounds.

~Zeke.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

That Puma's 50mm was put there to engage tanks.

Even if it would have been designed to engange armor (which it wasnt by the way) the power is still way to high as I assume that MoW is basing the penetration on the very rare APCR amunition which was stoped to be in production from 1943 onwards for every 50mm (and smaller) guns to save the material for biger calibers like the 75mm and onwards and around 1944 there was no APCR in use with smaller guns anymore. The Panzer IV, Stugs, Panther and Tigers had a lot more use for such shells. Hence why I complain that the Panzer IV H is doing so poorly in MoW when it was a quite decent vehicle able to take out the Sherman and T34 on high distance.

[Korsakov829]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

That Puma's 50mm was put there to engage tanks. The thing in the game is the Puma is way to accurate when its on the move. Its like the best Anti Tank Vehicle in the game, its cheaper then dirt, faster then that French TGV Train plus it has more ammo then ti really should. I swear I read somewhere it only had 12 rounds. In game it needs to be made stupid inaccurate to discourage people from using it like a guerilla vehicle....they just run it in circles around the enemy tank and blow the hell out of everything. Atleast it has butter for armor so it dies...just nothing can ever track it before it kills the target.

I've taken out a T29 two days ago with the Puma. Your right, the armor is thin, as anything 12.7mm or bigger will destroy it but their too fast. Their annoying, I've lost 6 tanks to one of these before.

[KnightFandragon]

Lolz my first ever Tank only battle was my dad and I vs some other people, we were Russia, them Germany and every tank they sent against us, be it Panthers, Panzer IVs, Jagdpanzer IV, we blew up and we were winning for awhile. Then they made 2 King Tigers sat out aways and didnt ever kill anything with the King Tigers, instead they kept sending in Pumas.....we would manage to kill every one of them but for every tank they killed (is2, KV85, T34/85...we needed to kill like 8-10 Pumas....it was retarded. They just ran up, kissed our rear and ran circles around us. Oh and it was only like 2 tanks per side so there was no way we were going to get the coverage needed to guard our flanks and rear. Even when we did both get a tank on the field, the puma was moving to fast for the other tank to get a clear, zeroed in shot before the other tank died. Ill toss in that was like my 10th battle of the game, so I was a newb then to but still......it was retarded.

[Korsakov829]

If that ever happens, bring in a Anti-Tank rifle. Or get a .50 cal, that should protect you from them.

[KnightFandragon]

Right, I woulda had infantry and stuff but it was tank only, there was only tanks and AT guns I think.....maybe there wasnt i forget and a supply truck......if there was an AT gun I just didnt buy any.....whoops but i dont think there was. In a normal game I put infantry in front and behind b/c ive been raped in the rear by Dynamite-Scouts to many times now. I ensure maximum coverage with infantry...works pretty well. Smgs and Rifle squads are dirt cheap compared to Storms...never realized that until the last time I played haha. 18 points I pumped out like 3 squads of 8...was crazy tons of men. I play the Germans 99% of the time....only tiems I play other nations if I just get that bored and decide to do it or in the editor hahaha

[Crni vuk]

just to say that, the 17pf with the usual APCBC amunition was slightly better then the Panther, though not by much so it was definetly very comparable.

The advantage of the Panther was its main gun in combination with the optics which have been some of the best in war. And its armor together with a great suspencion (again one of the best the Germans ever produced). The Panthers engine as well saw much use not just in the Panther design for example as it was a reliable and powerfull design.

The 17pf has never seen a good use before the Centurion and Comet eventualy (why is the comet not in game by the way !!!) as the Achiles, Firefly and Archer have been al just designs to fill the gab before better designs could be developed and send to the front. While the Cromwell was one of the most reliable British vehicles though it was not possible to squeeze the 17pf in it without designing a more or less completely new vehicle (which happend with the Comet but it shared many mechanical parts with the cromwell). Thankefully the idea with the Firefly just came right in time for the normandy champaign as luckily the first prototypes have been ready just before the invasion in france but even to achieve that was not easy and the crew inside the firefly turret really had NO room. The 17pf when deployed against the Panther proved to be a deadly weapon at least up to 1000m with a shoot to the turret. The structure was a different case as there have been panthers with different armor quality deployed in the west at least (on the east probably as well). British and US tests revealed that there have been somewhat 3 levels of quality in the armor of the Panther, with low, average and good. While Penetration (with both the 17pf and 90mm) was not achieved on the good armor plate they did have success with the low and average quality Panthers. The panther was a very good vehicle as there are enough Panthes which survived countless shoots from heavy guns, even some 122mm shoots though there are also Panthers in normandy which have been penetrated on the front by smaller calibers (starting with 76mm).

[Korsakov829]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

Right, I woulda had infantry and stuff but it was tank only, there was only tanks and AT guns I think.....maybe there wasnt i forget and a supply truck......if there was an AT gun I just didnt buy any.....whoops but i dont think there was. In a normal game I put infantry in front and behind b/c ive been raped in the rear by Dynamite-Scouts to many times now. I ensure maximum coverage with infantry...works pretty well. Smgs and Rifle squads are dirt cheap compared to Storms...never realized that until the last time I played haha. 18 points I pumped out like 3 squads of 8...was crazy tons of men. I play the Germans 99% of the time....only tiems I play other nations if I just get that bored and decide to do it or in the editor hahaha

If I were you I would keep a Officer around. But they seem a little expensive, might as well buy a sniper for a few more points.

[KnightFandragon]

My usual line up is I play in 3v3, myself, my dad and another person as Germans. He focuses mainly on infantry but I still buy some. I start off with a Pzr H and my team usually buys the first infantry squads. I then buy a tank squad to man the AAMG followed by a storm squad and as of late several SMG and Rifle squads and I set up my screen of infnatry. Then as the game goes on I have started buying scouts instead of officers b/c scouts carry around really big boom sticks in thier hip pocket which ive put to great effect atleast 1 time now. IM trying to get out of my tank whore box and work more with infantry, so far its going pretty good as weve won pretty much all our games. Of course we play 400-450pt combat w/o arty...Germany vs w/e nation the other team wants. Seems alot of otehr people dont do the infantry screen and instead go for the big guns of the IS2 and 3 but fail to get proper recon in and wind up getting a pretty flat angle side shot to the rear end of those IS's b/c they inch forward not knowing whats where due to thier lack of infantry......yeah its awesome. One thing I wish 1c would do is restore the power of the AT nade. While I didnt like it that infantry were so powerful I now hate it that infantry are not that good anymore. Reducing the power of AT nades adds to realism as AT nades prolly weresnt that good but it kept tanks in their place and made infantry really AWESOME....one thign I like about this game.