Friday 2010-08-06 Dev. update and Discussions

[zaelu]

pic1: has poor textures in Heinkel cockpit... outside is different than Il-2... better maybe... but far from "reality". In a glance I cant spot any reference. I wouldn't normally compare it to other existing sims (like DCS) but we have to wonder... DCS Black Shark (LO FC2) has a game engine quite old but with a bit of moding (hi rez textures) looks quite believable... and in December A-10 module will come with even more improvements...

pic2: way too many low poly low rez cartoonish trees. yes... far better than Il-2 but... it's 2010...

pic3: Still a bit of low rez/cartoonish looking cockpit textures and outside... "place holder" basically.

Why I say this?

I am not a fan of world of warcraft coming here daily almost to bash what developers of Battle of Britain does. But I want to tell that at least me.... and I believe many others think similar to me but maybe don't voice their thoughts... don't like to fall on my back to anything a developer throws at me as a teaser bone. Especially when my feed back can actually help him spot some possible improvements in their work.

So... please... this community is really starved and anxiously waits the gem, it will take anything as a "Wow!"... many going to fanboysm similar in manifestation to the hilarious characters from "The Fift Element" movie that accompanied the radio DJ... if people remember them... .

Pictures without anti-aliasing for a WIP game in 2010 looks like lack of care... like walking with unpolished shoes in front of women.
Low rez terrain and features should be hidden as much as possible.... especially if they will improve in the final product...

You better show some short animations or multi-player/ map building/ mission creating features than debatable pictures.




To all fans here... like me. Don't jump on my criticism... it's true... I didn't made any sim in my life... but... I just voice a fear that all of us share.

I don't want SoW Battle of Britain to disappoint. I am not easily disappointed... i am not a fan boy of CS that can't adapt at new features and bash the new product as "disappointing" for trivial reasons. I just believe that SoW BoB should kick major arse being so much time in development and some of the image updates from WIP worries me.

In the end... take a look at a promo of current Lock On 2... platinum... an old game... (I picked LO FC2 - DCS BS cause is the other sim I play and cause its developer (ED) is very close to Maddox.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99_hoJNj3ys&fmt=22

And for comparison to pics from moded pit by RICHARDO (for free):

[Feuerfalke]

Well, zaelu, that's the difference between a 2DOF and a 6DOF full geometry cockpit. Maybe you can figure out yourself, which one is easier to render. And even then, you always have an option to increase or decrease level of detail. I don't know what detail level the cockpit is set to - how do you know?


Hopefully the animated crewmen will do their part to stop the dogfighting Bombers as they are common in IL2 - LOL.

[Kefirchik]

Hi Ilia! Nice sceenshots. I want to ask you about lighting inside cockpit. At the screenshot we see aluminum metal without paint. I think? what Aluminum must reflect much more than paint. So on these sceen's we don't see the difference in reflect paint and aluminum. Is it optimization for FPS or still WIP?

[Fansadox]

I really like the planes and the detail in them. Cant wait to take a first flight But im not happy where you guys are going when it comes to the ground textures and landscape details.

[dali]

Originally Posted by zaelu

To all fans here... like me. don't jump on my criticism... is true... i didn't made any sim in my life... but... i just voice a fear that all of us share.

I don't want SoW Battle of Britain to disappoint. I am not easily disappointed... i am not a fan boy of CS that can't adapt at new features and bash the new product as "disappointing" for trivial reasons. I just believe that SoW BoB should kick major arse being so much time in development and some of the image updates from WIP worries me.

In the end... take a look at a promo of current Lock On 2... platinum... an old game... (I picked LO FC2 - DCS BS cause is the other sim I play and cause it's developer (ED) is very close to Maddox.



And for comparison to pics from moded pit by RICHARDO (for free):

well, as far as your "criticism" goes, I can say only this - Bob is still unfinished and as Ilya pointed out several times, he has visual settings set somewhere in the middle, even AA is off. Talking of LO FC2 - I was beta tester for LOMAC, so I know the series quite well. LO FC2 has some amazing details, like perfectly readible service labels on the skin, but is this contributing to the overall feeling? I would say no. If you want eyecandy for screenshots, then details you are describing are of course on the top of the list. If you want something else from the sim, than eye candy is somewhere in the middle of the "desireable features". For instance - inertia modeling in the LO FC series is far, far from something beliveable. One small detail - braking on the ground - there is one old A10 sim called A10 Cuba!, which has that feeling of weight coded much better than LO FC. I haven't seen or tried Bob yet, but judging from that Ilya's video with spit in major role the inertia modeling is far the best I've ever seen in general public simulator so far. I think that Oleg and team have chosen the correct set of goals (at least those they are sharing with us) for their sim. For me the feeling of mass (weight of the airplane) and intertia, correct dynamics of bullets, aerodynamics, weather, field of vision and AI are the most important for combat sim of this kind. Ilya and Oleg are showing us the visual parts only, which is nice, I like to watch Friday updates, but they don't reflect the qualities behind. That rests to be seen in the near future.

[Caveman]

Originally Posted by dali

well, as far as your "criticism" goes, I can say only this - Bob is still unfinished and as Ilya pointed out several times, he has visual settings set somewhere in the middle, even AA is off. Talking of LO FC2 - I was beta tester for LOMAC, so I know the series quite well. LO FC2 has some amazing details, like perfectly readible service labels on the skin, but is this contributing to the overall feeling? I would say no. If you want eyecandy for screenshots, then details you are describing are of course on the top of the list. If you want something else from the sim, than eye candy is somewhere in the middle of the "desireable features". For instance - inertia modeling in the LO FC series is far, far from something beliveable. One small detail - braking on the ground - there is one old A10 sim called A10 Cuba!, which has that feeling of weight coded much better than LO FC. I haven't seen or tried Bob yet, but judging from that Ilya's video with spit in major role the inertia modeling is far the best I've ever seen in general public simulator so far. I think that Oleg and team have chosen the correct set of goals (at least those they are sharing with us) for their sim. For me the feeling of mass (weight of the airplane) and intertia, correct dynamics of bullets, aerodynamics, weather, field of vision and AI are the most important for combat sim of this kind. Ilya and Oleg are showing us the visual parts only, which is nice, I like to watch Friday updates, but they don't reflect the qualities behind. That rests to be seen in the near future.

Agree. I've been simming for 28 years and can attest to the fact that graphics, while important, are down the list of desireable priorities relative to flight modeling, damage, etc... All the fantastic moments in IL-2, or any other sim have come from those moments of "wow, that behaved so realistically". The mind tends to "fill in the blanks" a bit easier on graphics than roll rates, air densities, etc...

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Kefirchik

Hi Ilia! Nice sceenshots. I want to ask you about lighting inside cockpit. At the screenshot we see aluminum metal without paint. I think? what Aluminum must reflect much more than paint. So on these sceen's we don't see the difference in reflect paint and aluminum. Is it optimization for FPS or still WIP?

If i recall correctly from the days i was building model airplanes, all of the luftwaffe aircraft interiors (cockpits as well as the landing gear wells) were painted in RLM 02 colours, which is matte light gray paint. As for RAF aircraft, i think instrument panels were black and the rest was interior green. So, since it's not bare metal but a surface painted with matte colours, i think it's safe to say that they wouldn't reflect too much light.

If you think about it a bit, it makes perfect sense. Why have bare metal cockpits that reflect light and hinder the pilot's vision?

[Kefirchik]

look at the picture. Paint relfect same as aluminum... We can see only diffuse map, without reflect map.
For compare some picture from Wings of prey...

[easytarget3]

Thanks a lot for the update!It looks amazing!the models are just stuning considering it WIP!!!
i have one concern, but it could be from my lack of info and experience, because i don see it in motion!
But on picture 2. the tree leaves look very big, compare to a window it looks like same size as 1.5 m window?i know you have limitation and you have only one size of tree, but is itnt the size of detail things like leaves what makes the feelings of scale?maybe in motion we wont see it and maybe this size is perfect for flying around in a cocpit, i just hope that it wont cause the feeling we fly above toy city with toy tree when we go low,
thanks for your hard work

D

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Kefirchik

look at the picture. Paint relfect same as aluminum... We can see only diffuse map, without reflect map.

All of the spots you show are in shadow, except the part that's reflecting perfectly. I mean, can we be serious here? Paint certainly doesn't reflect the same as aluminum, and all aluminum doesn't reflect the same. None of that even takes into account the fact that this is all rendered on what Ilya has admitted to be a "crappy computer". It's already been stated that they are putting the game together on lower range computers on purpose to ensure the highest level of compatibility.

Shall I remind everyone again that this is WIP?