Friday 2010-07-30 Dev. update and Discussions

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by dflion

2. There is no seat head armour plate on the Bf109's - not sure if this model had it?

In real life some of the 109s did and some didn't during BoB. A similar situation to the Hurricane. If I recall correctly there were at least two Bf-109 micro-variants planned for this sim.

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

In real life some of the 109s did and some didn't during BoB. A similar situation to the Hurricane. If I recall correctly there were at least two Bf-109 micro-variants planned for this sim.

indeed! there was no "standard" how the 109 looked like during BoB.
the main versions were E-4 and E-1.

they could have the rounded or later canopy.
"external" windshield armour or not.
head armour or not.
rearview mirror or not.

its pure in 1Cs decission how the ingame 109E will look like !!
all is correct

[Blakduk]

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

indeed! there was no "standard" how the 109 looked like during BoB.
the main versions were E-4 and E-1.

they could have the rounded or later canopy.
"external" windshield armour or not.
head armour or not.
rearview mirror or not.

its pure in 1Cs decission how the ingame 109E will look like !!
all is correct

The case was the same, and to some extent more extreme, among the RAF units. Planes in the same units had a wide variety of different spinners, windshields, armour, even propellors. Early in the BOB some of the Spitfires went into battle with a two-bladed, fixed pitch prop- they were replaced in the field but consider this was the most modern plane the British had at the time. I'll find some photos to post that show the variation of the planes within the units. Also be mindful there was an extensive network of salvage crews who cannabalised wrecked aircraft to get airworthy ones back up to the fight- standardisation was a goal that was barely achieved.

I not as excited by the pictures that have been posted this week, but the comment about 'crew animation' has certainly got my interest!

[luthier]

Sorry I'm a bit late with the replies.

Originally Posted by csThor

Ilya - Just to be sure I understand that correctly: You can select the german staff markings in any colour you wish, right? Because they were always only in black & white and sometimes even just in one of the two colours (or even just an outline in some rare cases). Or did I miss something here?

Yes it's not restrictive. Like in Il-2, you can set any plane group to be a certain geschwader - gruppe - staffel. Then, new in BoB, you can set any plane to be any number or a pre-set such as a geschwaderkommodore or a technical officer or a staffel pastry chef. Which means you can potentially have a geschwaderkommodore flying for a 6. Staffel, which would color his markings yellow.

We could restrict it to only historical possibilities, but why should we? If a mission creator wants to have green or red staff markings, and the game already supports it by definition, why go through the extra trouble of coding restrictions?

Originally Posted by Fansadox

Where are the swastikas?

Russia recently passed a new law similar to the German one making any kind of Nazi symbols illegal. The law does not have provisions for historical context. 1C being based in Russia, if we were to manufacture a product with swastikas in it, we could be taken to court for Nazi propaganda.

Originally Posted by Zorin

luthier, am I correct in assuming that there will be two versions of the He111 in game? From the screenshots it looks like there is a P-2 and H-3 version.

H-2 and P-2 actually.

Originally Posted by Zorin

It did look alright in previous screenshots, ut todays shot make them look like sitting too low in the cockpit. The way they look it appears to be impossible to look through the gun sight.

It's all part of the animation thing. Our stock pilots are 175 cm I think. With tight cockpits like the 109, we have to find a fragile balance between height and shoulder room so they don't clip through the sides of the cockpit during maneuvers.

This of course has absolutely no bearing on player camera position.

Originally Posted by Friendly_flyer

Iiiii don't know what I'm doing, that's all.

Originally Posted by Friendly_flyer

An order for tail-markings for RAF planes was issued in May. It specified tricolour markings in RAF paint colours, red forward, and stated that they should "cover as much of the fin area as possible". Thus, a number of versions appeared. These are all taken from photos of Hurricanes in 1940:

We have all those variants. There's a huge jump ahead compared to Il-2 markings. I want to keep it the details a secret for now, until we're ready to show that in a screenshot as well.


Re: Hurricane prop. We stand by it. We've got references up the wazoo, it's historically accurate.


Re: whining. We do appreciate and welcome constructive criticism. We never claim to be flawless, and we really do want to see your feedback, both positive and negative.

On the other hand, the posters that are a bad version of top 20 radio station, with the same song playing over and over and over and over again week after week after week, that's just completely unnecessary. We get it. Fine. We're working on improving the sim on all fronts, so it'll either get corrected eventually, or if it isn't, you're more than welcome to resume whining when it ships that way in the release. Honestly. Once or twice is enough.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by luthier

Russia recently passed a new law similar to the German one making any kind of Nazi symbols illegal. The law does not have provisions for historical context. 1C being based in Russia, if we were to manufacture a product with swastikas in it, we could be taken to court for Nazi propaganda.

So, can it presumed, then, that there will be one version of SoW for all regions that omits the depiction of the swastika? Or might there be a "hidden" swastika file like in IL2?

[luthier]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

So, can it presumed, then, that there will be one version of SoW for all regions that omits the depiction of the swastika? Or might there be a "hidden" swastika file like in IL2?

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by luthier

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.

Thanks for that detailed reply. In the long run, it's not a big deal, as I'm sure modders will be releasing skins with swastikas on them within days (if not hours) after the game's release.

Speaking of skins, will the skins that ship with the game be moddable, or will they be hard-coded, like the defaults in IL2?

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by luthier

No there won't be a hidden swastika, and Russian legal climate being what it is, we can even potentially get in trouble if one is made as a pure user mod with no help from us.

I mean, lots of other Russian teams, video games, movies, books, etc, continue to splash swastikas all over their work and they don't get in trouble, but who knows what the climate will be in a year or two or five. We'd rather stay 100% legal, and that means no swastikas, no SS runes, no portraits of Hitler, and so on. We have a wide variety of historical posters for example appear randomly on our buildings (British in England, French and German in France) and we scrubbed out anything remotely Nazi from the German ones. So trust me, there won't be a hidden swastika feature.

I find this new's, VERY disappointing, but I realize the position the law places you in. It certainly will affect the immersion level for some players, this one included.

[swiss]

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[csThor]

Thx for clearing that up Ilya. I was just wondering since my approach to a historical flight sim is attention to historical details.

Please remember, however, that a Stab was not part of a Squadron as it was superordinated to them. A Stab contained the command ofa Gruppe or Geschwader and therefor presided over them. While it was not unusual for its members to fly missions with individual Staffeln they were an organizationally separate entity.