Newb

[Tempest123]

I've flown the il2 p-38 quite a bit, it is great flying aircraft in il2. Very stable, gun range is very good due to them being mounted on the nose, can make very long distance shots because of the lack of convergence. The 38 can also turn very tightly, use combat flaps and down throttle the inner engine on the turn, can out-turn most fighters save for the super-light single seaters. Very nice flying characteristics, just watch out for steep dives in the J model, they will result in compressibility and are had to recover from, in the L just pop the dive brakes and you're good to go. The 38 is easier to land and taxi than most too, and like has been said it has good speed against most Japanese planes, but is in tough against faster Luftwaffe aircraft. It has a good ceiling though and like most of the USAAF planes is very good at altitude.
The biggest problem with the 38 is that it is a big target, and aiming at a P-38 is easier than other planes due to the sheer size of the plane. IMHO its one of the best designed and best flying planes (in il2), but like the other twins is an easier target.

[kjwright]

So how does the P-38 stack up in competition compered to other fighters. same with the P-47. Now I know that the twin boom design does present a bigger target, but even the show Dogfights showed what an experienced pilot can do with a P-38. Also I understand that the P-47 was called the jug for a reason. Its a huge aircraft with lots of weight behind it. It does carry 2 more .50 cal mgs then the mustangs aswell as alittle more armor.

[AndyJWest]

I'd not put to much credence on TV documentaries about dogfighting. The reality was that the safest way to shoot someone down was to come in fast, and fill him with holes before he knew you were around. Evenly-matched 'jousts' were rare, and not something any rational pilot would want to get engaged in. Neither the P-38 nor the P-47 are sensible planes for circling fights, unless you are at high altitude. In any case, it's no good looking for a 'killer plane' - it is only as good as the pilot flying it. If you really want to learn how to dogfight, you are better off learning in an inferior aircraft - unlike for real pilots, a smoking crater is a learning experience in a sim.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by kjwright

So how does the P-38 stack up in competition compered to other fighters. same with the P-47. Now I know that the twin boom design does present a bigger target, but even the show Dogfights showed what an experienced pilot can do with a P-38. Also I understand that the P-47 was called the jug for a reason. Its a huge aircraft with lots of weight behind it. It does carry 2 more .50 cal mgs then the mustangs aswell as alittle more armor.

Haven't played online in ages but my hunch is in late war servers a good pilot in a Spit 25lb or Dora will both probably dominate.

But as always depends more on the pilot than the ride.

[robtek]

Those american planes only work well when flown 10 to 1 or something like that!





"Duck and cover "

[kjwright]

Originally Posted by robtek

Those american planes only work well when flown 10 to 1 or something like that!





"Duck and cover "

thats why most German pilots obeyed Richthofen rules and only attacked when they had the advantage and could win

[kjwright]

to be honest you give me a flight of 4 P-51D and ill take on 9 109's, i look at this way if there are more then you then me. that means i have pick of targets to shoot at. You know A "target rich environment".

[AKA_Tenn]

well the P38 is a really good attack platform, if you can keep it on the attack... otherwise get a P51 or spitty wingman to keep its six clear (cause it has a big ass) and its unstoppable (assuming you know exactly how to fly it). its main point is excellent acceleration and a very good climb rate in a step climb.

the P47 on the other hand is a good solo fighter, u don't do turn fights with it, you keep ur altitude, its got the best diving ability in the game (next to the DO [push prop german plane]), and at altitude its really fast and agile despite its size, just don't get low and slow with it, the best manuver is a powerdive, 4000m to 700m it'll reach speeds of 880-900km/h, when you pull out of the dive, do it slowly, and then point your nose up on about an 70-80 degree angle, u'll climb right back up to 4000m.

against a dora the p47 and the p38 couldn't win in a streight line race, u'd have to stall fight'em or run towards some friendlys and get help, but remember to keep your altitude, the higher you are the better your plane performs... thats the difference between the dora and the american planes, the dora works better down low.

as for the spitfire... just keep your energy up (altitude) stay above him and you won't have any problems...

and the P51C or the mustang mkIII are much faster, and a bit more manuverable than the p51d, so i'd reccomend flying those over flying the D models, but if you must fly the D, then the 5NT is better, much lighter, though not as tough, its not as touchy. when you get better at flying the P51, try out the B model, its my favorite one, its slower, but much more agile, and super fun to fly since it doesn't have the same stall tendency as the C and D models

[Erkki]

I'd recommend you, too, to first learn the basics of the game... Because no matter how good plane you fly, online, the Il-2 is not an easy game, even against complete greentags.

The difference between Il-2 and many other WW2 flight sims published before(as well as some TV "documentaries" and especially movies, is that this time the "bad guys" can fight back. The best prop fighter series of the game from 40-41 is the Bf 109. 42-43 its the Fw 190. 44-45 is arguable, but both Bf 109 and especially Fw 190 are still very high in the list. They are never easy opponents, anything but "target drones" you can just blast out of the sky one hand tied behind flying inverted in a P-51, to exaggerate a little.

The real-life advantages of the American machines is mostly their very long range, meaning they dont have to fly back to their base after just an hour of flying at mil power, unlike 109, 190, Spitfire and most Russian designs(especially La-5/7 had very short range). Gaming wise they are usually pretty fast, not always in top speed but cruising speed, except the P-40 which is a bit of a pig. P-47, any version, has hard time in any kind of dogfight at alts below 6000m (about 18,000ft), and while it can take a lot of hits, its not a good tactic to take them from any bad guy, and the first burst might still kill you, and the quad cannons of Fw 190 actually usually do exactly that. At high alts, if you keep your speed up, you can outmaneuver most Fw 190s(dont try the Dora, or Fw 190 D-9) and even sometimes 109s, that will lack elevator authority there and burn out their speed at just slightest maneuvers. P-51 is as fast or faster than German aircraft, usually much better choice than P-47, but even it cant outclimb 109s, out-roll 190s and depending on altitude it might still be slower, ie. D-9 is faster down low and 109 K-4 up high. Personally I think the best prop fighter of the game are Mustang 3 and P-51-D, but there are lots of situations where other types do considerably better, generally best doesnt mean best in everything, ie. they still lack the punch(armament) of many other designs.

Its all down to what your machine can do, against what you're up against, in the situation you have, at what altitude. And knowing what happens around you. Its called situational awareness, or SA, and is the very most important skill for a fighter pilot right after basic flying maneuvers and skills. Of course you can still fail even if you had every kind of advantage on your side, but SA allows you to avoid such situations that someone with better "flying skills" might survive.

You will most likely very soon find out why P-38 was moved to assault and close air support in Europe as soon as enough P-51s were around together with later P-47 models that could carry enough drop tanks.

But dont give up early, remember that some of the guys you will have to fight have played flight sims since 1990s, and at least 40%-ish have at least 2 years. If you can keep up the first 6 months, you will have learned a lot and the learning curve is not that steep anymore. But its so long that no one has yet made it to the top, so under right conditions, anyone(or anything) is beatable.

Finding a good group to play with, or even 1-2 people, helps too. See you in HyperLobby.

[Blackdog_kt]

Yes, having a couple of semi-regular wingmen makes a ton of difference.

First of all let me say that i don't fly online much, in fact i usually do it for a couple of months and then disappear for an equal amount of time. Of course, that means i forget a lot of stuff and each time i get back to it, it usually takes me between 8 and 12 hours of flying time to get back to where i was (which isn't something extraordinady, i usually hover around a 50/50 kill/death ratio).
Couple that with some DSL problems and serving a year as a conscript AA gunner in the local air force and i haven't flown online for a year. Well, at least i got to fire twin 20mm rheinmetal guns for real

Nevertheless, in all of my on-and-off online flying, what stood out the most is the importance of a wingman that you can work well with (actually, them being more experienced it was usually me who was the wingman). And in order to find people to fly with and enjoy the sim, it pays off if you are an honest fellow.
What i usually did was join teamspeak, be up-front about my lack of skill and just say "i'll tag along with you guys if you don't mind, don't worry, i'm not going to be a burden". Sure enough, people didn't mind and i got to witness how some very good virtual pilots did their thing. Granted, i'm not a stranger to flight sims, in fact i've been simming since 1992 on my first PC, but it's a totally different beast to be flying online against people with massive amounts of stick time.

Initially, i was just following them from a distance of 500m-1km and letting them do the attacking and the fancy stuff. If they got in a turn fight i zoomed up and to the side a little, settled in a nice turn and watched the fight, if they boom and zoomed i just followed them while staying a bit higher than them. That's all i did, but if someone managed to get on their tails i was in a perfect position to attack him and clear their tail. Sooner or later, i managed to get a couple of kills this way. Now, this might seem fairly basic and maybe even boring stuff, but you'll be surprised how much your handling improves just by following a competent pilot.

See, by following them you are essentially putting your aircraft through the same maneuvers as they are. After 3-4 hours of this you realize that you can suddenly and magically fly in a way that you couldn't before, more efficient, you don't burn off so much speed in maneuvers and so on. The explanation is of course that your muscle memory sets in and you do a small part of what the experienced guys do without even thinking about it.

After a few evenings you'll have picked up who the regulars of the server are in your timezone. You will have cleared their tails a couple of times, you will have acted as bait a couple more and generally people will be thinking "hey, that newbie is a decent fellow and a team oriented player who cares more about out team winning the map than he cares about his own stats and stealing kills from others". That's the important qualities, skill comes not only from talent but also from experience, but if skilled people like having you around the quality of the experience you acculumate is that much better. That's when they start asking you themselves..."mate, we are going to hit the mission targets in grid AC14, do you want to ride with us?"

Another thing to note is that you need to think as a formation/section and not as individual aircraft. After i overcome the stage of being sloppy and i gain some actual control over my aircraft, i stop playing sacrificial lamb and taking unecessary risks, even if i don't care about my stats. The reason is that if i get shot down i diminish the strength of my section. Similarly, i will do whatever i can to help a wingman out of a dangerous position, unless he himself tells me that it's hopeless and he's got no chance of avoiding getting shot down and even then, if i think i have a shot at rescuing him i'll still try it.

This mentality goes for kills as well. There's no such thing as "my target" and "your target" inside your section, unless the target is visibly out of action (the aircraft is visibly and clearly shot down/on fire/pilot has bailed out/wings missing/etc). The target is mine for the duration of my firing pass. If i don't shoot him down i will extend and cover the guy i'm flying with, now the target is his for one pass and then we switch back again. This goes on until one of us shoots him down.

Finally, it's generally considered a courtesy that if you're unsure if you should intervene in a fight you should ask about it. I have been diving towards a friendly to help him only to hear "thanks mate, i can handle him" (and he did), i have also been reluctant to interfere and the guy went "come on, get him off me". Some people might enjoy having a 15 minute one on one duel regardless of who wins and i don't want to crash their party. Similarly, others are more satisfied with completing a sortie, survival rates and advancing the mission objectives, so they are less likely to turn down help in dispatching a bandit. It's pretty simple, if in doubt ask them.

As you can see, i didn't say anything at all about what planes to fly, what load-outs to use and what tactics to learn. There are people out there who know tons more about these things than i do. Just be a good wingman and a team player and sooner or later you'll learn insane amounts of stuff from them, wether they are on your side and babysit you back to base or on the other team and beat seven different shades of crap out of you on a regular basis. All you need is to find a server with difficulty settings that suit you and stick to it so that you get to know who's who among the regular population, some patience and a friendly/enjoyable attitude and you'll be progressing in leaps and bounds in no time. Welcome and enjoy the ride