Modding SW3?

Registration on the StarRover forum seems broken, tried both English and Russian settings. Oh well.

Anyway, that Aleksty guy posted something interesting about radar.

Originally Posted by lolgoogletranslate

Nafigator wrote (a):
EPR - is equivalent to the area radiootrazheniya. How well ship
will be visible on the radar. For example, fighters have Reptora minimum
0.9 seems to have Stylet 1.0, at Trident 1.3. Perhaps this koefitsient
multiplied by the standard detection range ...


To be precise, EPR - a relative concept. With respect to the radar -
rate a direct reflection of the signal necessary for identification purposes.
That is - the higher the level of direct reflection - the closer the goal and so it
more. Technology stelss on that and billeting - minimum area
echo - an area smaller than smooth surfaces (note
attention to the "Comanche" or "F-117" ...

In the game this option is relative and is prescribed as ships and
radars.
For example, take the radar "HAWK" and "Reptor" installed "shadow" (40%
suppression of reflection) and "Reptor" with 2 "Shadows" (40% +40%):
Resolution of the radar - 0.34
The level of reflection Reptora with "shadow" - 0.54 (0.9 * 0.6) * - reptor will
Discovered

Resolution of radar - 0.34
The level of reflection Reptora with "shadow" - 0.18 (0.9 * 0.2) * - reptor will NOT
Discovered

* If extinguished 40%, the coefficient = 0.6 (1-40%), and if extinguished 40% +40%, the
coefficient = 0.2 (1-40% -40%). In theory, if installed modules "Shadow"
and "Shadow-2" - the ship do not see any ... Unfortunately, I did not understand
- If handled correctly EPR - nepisi, somehow, do not speak, visible
me or not

That was him quoting someone named Nafigator. He added,

Originally Posted by Aleksty

Parameters of the radar -
resolution - (than less so much the better)
max_distance - (than more so much the better)

2. Create new, for instance module PlasmaDessipator, and add in XML files that he worked it is impossible!
Try open files XML in program for work with them, for instance XMLSpy!
And find information on XML type - "Presentation metagiven by means of XML"
XML - only given about data and all!
Without access to engine of the play nothing will not leave

Hmm. Let's see what we have.

1. Radars (see Modules.xml) have 2 values, resolution and max_distance. The latter is easy to understand, it just means how far the radar scans.
2. Ships have an EPR value (see Carcasses.xml).
3. Stealth modules (see Modules.xml) have a cloaking_ratio value.

Ok here's my guess. Resolution is how "fine grained" the radar is - a calculation is applied using the radar's resolution and compared to the ship's EPR value, which determines whether it can be detected or not.

Cloaking ratios are less than 1 (in-game text says "%") so I'm guessing they are a multiplier for the EPR value. Example: EPR = 10 and cloaking ratio = .6, the result will be 10 x .6 = 6. So cloaking ratios make EPR values smaller.

This means the radar resolution should not detect EPR values if they are lower than some value. Of course, it cannot be a flat calculation - surely if the ship is in front of your face, it doesn't matter whether your radar can detect it or not, right? However, game does not have a "visual range". So this must somehow tie back into the radar.

I think the radar calculation must also include distance. This is the only way a ship has any chance of detecting anything. Otherwise if you stack multiple cloaking devices and attack something it will not fight back because it cannot see you (e.g. long range missile sniping tactic). This is fine for missiles (ship is truly out of range) but for radar it doesn't make sense to be undetectable if you are right in front of his face.

All ships have an innate base radar (see Carcasses.xml) built in - we know radar modules extend the range, but I'm not sure if the resolution is also replaced. E.g. ship has short-range radar with good resolution, but player adds radar module with long-range radar with bad resolution. Ha, what happens?

-
I'm going to try stacking 4 stealth modules on a fighter and see if targets respond to me. The Ghost module gives 80% cloaking, so 4 of them should give me 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.0016 to apply to base EPR. If distance is not factored into radar calculation then I should be invisible and not be attacked by hostile targets no matter how close I get.

I'll remove the fighter's guns so he doesn't start firing as soon as he is in range, and switch missiles to off. That way I won't "hit first".

Update:
Well, 4x Ghosts renders me close to undetectable. Crap. You can see in the screenshot, I'm practically escorting those pirates (Hero's ship has higher speed).

Hmm, game crashed - LOGfile.txt is complaining can't load textures. Could be mod trouble, I loaded an earlier save which didn't have Fleet mod installed. Wait, I thought I downloaded the mothership mod-compatible carcasses.xml. Nanaki you wanna take a look and see if it means anything?

Damn, can't do more testing now, gotta take young cousins out to amusement park lol.

Update:
Huh, guess what - the targets still don't react even if you start breaking out with the missiles and ramming it up their rear ends at point blank. They just keep on flying even though they're getting blasted to bits by my stealthed ship - which was flying so close to them it was practically escorting them.

I'm gonna see if they react if my stealthed ship has guns and starts shooting them up.

Update:
Wow, totally unexpected. They don't even freaking react to guns. My fighter just sat there behind them blowing them out of the sky one by one at leisure.

One strange thing though, surely some enterprising player has attempted full stealth before. I mean, all you have to do is park the mothership somewhere safe, like several clicks above the system plane, and then send one full stealth fighter out to kill everyone. It's not like it's particularly complicated.

[StarShatter]

Originally Posted by Trucidation

One strange thing though, surely some enterprising player has attempted full stealth before. I mean, all you have to do is park the mothership somewhere safe, like several clicks above the system plane, and then send one full stealth fighter out to kill everyone. It's not like it's particularly complicated.

Haha, I did this in a Cheetah, I was calling it the Super Rambo. Taking everyone out and not being spotted. Normal Rambo is what I do with my Hero when there too many ships to win in a dog fight, I send him out solo with a big radar, stealth and some rockets. I haven't tried 4 Blackholes giving the entire team high stealth though. You'd essentially have twice the likelihood of being discovered though (compared to x4 ghost).

Also to Trucidation you said something in another topic about adding the alien fighter. I could throw that together if no one else has yet.

As far as modding is going, the turrets work wonders, thanks guys. The big dual dual kinetic cannons look and sound so cool firing from Dragons, shame about the dispersion. And the makeshift texture isn't to bad.

But with the tractor beam... All the mother ships that have some seem to have this "lit.orig_03 - Default" material, which is blue like the beam (seeing as the texture is greyscale). Speaking of texture, the tractor beam texture isn't the texture for the material either. I've tried to mirror the beams used on other ships, but the materials bit is the only one I cant replicate. I was looking for the thread where someone says they were enjoying their tractor beam equipped interceptor (something like that) but I couldn't find it with a tractor beam search. What's the trick to adding tractor beams on interceptors?

[Goblin Wizard]

Additional info about EPR (suggested by Aleksty).
AI.ini (auto translated)

[EPR]
, Minimum speed
vMin = 0.5
, How many times the EPR increases in a state of motion (V> VMin) / / ("Ambush")
nEPR = 1.5
, How many times the EPR is reduced by finding within a cloud low visibility
nCloud = 2.5
; In the "ambush" a distance threshold of aggression
distanceAmbush = 40
; Ship goes to the opacity, when ERP <eprMin
eprMin = 0.1
; Range CloackingModule
radiusCloak = 60

Hmm, radar is affected by speed? I thought distance would play a role.

@StarShatter:
Thanks, that would be nice. The alien ships have many system slots but by default most of them are empty! Such a shame.

What's wrong with the kinetic cannons' dispersion? It's just one value in the Modules.xml file, if I'm not mistaken. Just tweak that and they'll be as pinpoint sharp as lasers (but be careful, at the rate those things pump out bullets, they'll be killer weapons if they're too accurate)

I need to learn how to add ships myself but for now I'm busy with other scripts. I'm also translating into english the german modding handbook for Star Wolves 2 - it's not going to be very good because I don't know any willing German translators and have to rely on machine translations... Still, it should finished in 2 days (Tuesday) hopefully.

Edit:
By the way, if someone out there really wants some ships to edit, try looking up some mods for the space sim Freelancer. There's a mod for it called the Rebalance mod - it should have dozens of ship grafted to it, god knows I spent years playing that game lol. (That game has some really great ideas, the only problem is, like most space sims, the player is basically limited to 1 ship. Star Wolves really is the only game series of this type which has a "mothership" + team concept. In my limited knowledge... there may be other games like these, but I haven't discovered them.)

[Goblin Wizard]

If you use my mod, you can easily change ship you want to buy.

Example: gw.script file. Only two changes are needed.

1.

function DialogR_buy_Gunslinger_mk2_black0()
  buy_fig("Gunslinger_mk2_black0");
end;

This function is activated when you choose to buy a Gunslinger T in the maintenance station menu. If you want to buy alien fighter change the "Gunslinger_mk2_black0" to "A_Fighter_0"
Below you will find the table:

2.

local tab_FIG = {
	{"Gunslinger_mk2_black0",280000},
        --//--
	{"AngorFrigate_f",100}
	};

Do the same as before, change the "Gunslinger_mk2_black0" to "A_Fighter_0".

If you want your fighter as additional menu entry you have to add new dialog answer in the DialogGW.xml, make additional function like in 1. and add new line in the fighters table 2.

Whoa, I didn't know you could attach the tractor beam to non-motherships. Then again, the function which puts the tractored items into inventory doesn't really care about the source, probably, so it does seem reasonable you could splice the tractor beam function elsewhere. It's just that all items will end up in the mothership inventory regardless of who tractored it. Hmm, sneaky - fast way to clean up a system eh? Send everyone out in different directions while slow mothership lumbers to the portal. Nice.

@StarShatter:
Try looking in the PFX folder, that's the most likely candidate for stuff like that. I'm trying to mod rocket exhaust colours btw that's why I'm rooting around in there lol (although I have a sneaking suspicion they just hardcoded it -_-)...

[StarShatter]

Kinda just threw together another DIY, to avoid conflictions and still be usable I used differnt entities of the interceptors, and decreased the attack fighter's threat a bit.

I had a random thought that your mod tool could be used to change files around without player input. Still need to DL that non-lite. Long week end, spent mostly sleeping :\. Best thing about living in a country founded by the British, free public holiday courtesy of the Queen.


Now I haven't tried these in my game, and the way I've incorporated them into shops I haven't tried properly (from a new game). So you're the proud tester . Pretty sure glancing around a while ago I saw someone use this method. I don't recall getting any responses about this method so I avoided it as much as I could, haha. They may only appear in the FTU*. Only way I could add them solely to the outer-systems. I looked for shops that stocked Black Stormcrows, none**... GOOD LUCK! *isn't too confident*

I took the names from Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance's Seraphim faction's Fighter/Bomber and Air Superiority Fighters.

*That or appear based on storyline timing, when I went to the outer system to pick up a stormcrow MK2, there was none (no FTU access).
**There was one, but it stocked almost everything. So wasn't too sure, feel free to add it to that shop.

Edit:

Whoa, I didn't know you could attach the tractor beam to non-motherships.

Mmm well I'm having a wee bit of trouble doing it. I can add the references but no beam comes out. Might try from a fresh game, doubt it would help though. I don't think the IMDeditor is equipped to add/remove materials.

I better finish my testing before I try adding your ship, I don't remember which files are modded and which aren't now lol.

Does google translate (Russian -> English) help you with \Data\AI\AI.ini? I'm trying to decipher that but the goddamn comments are in extended ASCII which don't seem to want to convert. Tried pasting in Word and then switching to a Cyrillic font, but google translate displays the same gibberish anyway. Ugh.

Update:
Game will only play mono sounds - if you have anything in stereo it will not play. I was changing the MIRV explosion sounds (because it's not really exploding, it's just splitting into the separate warheads). Strange why it didn't want to play the sound I gave it... until I realised it was in stereo. Changed it to mono and now it works

[SuperiorX]

Originally Posted by Trucidation

Registration on the StarRover forum seems broken, tried both English and Russian settings. Oh well.

Anyway, that Aleksty guy posted something interesting about radar.

That was him quoting someone named Nafigator. He added,

Hmm. Let's see what we have.

1. Radars (see Modules.xml) have 2 values, resolution and max_distance. The latter is easy to understand, it just means how far the radar scans.
2. Ships have an EPR value (see Carcasses.xml).
3. Stealth modules (see Modules.xml) have a cloaking_ratio value.

Ok here's my guess. Resolution is how "fine grained" the radar is - a calculation is applied using the radar's resolution and compared to the ship's EPR value, which determines whether it can be detected or not.

Cloaking ratios are less than 1 (in-game text says "%") so I'm guessing they are a multiplier for the EPR value. Example: EPR = 10 and cloaking ratio = .6, the result will be 10 x .6 = 6. So cloaking ratios make EPR values smaller.

This means the radar resolution should not detect EPR values if they are lower than some value. Of course, it cannot be a flat calculation - surely if the ship is in front of your face, it doesn't matter whether your radar can detect it or not, right? However, game does not have a "visual range". So this must somehow tie back into the radar.

I think the radar calculation must also include distance. This is the only way a ship has any chance of detecting anything. Otherwise if you stack multiple cloaking devices and attack something it will not fight back because it cannot see you (e.g. long range missile sniping tactic). This is fine for missiles (ship is truly out of range) but for radar it doesn't make sense to be undetectable if you are right in front of his face.

All ships have an innate base radar (see Carcasses.xml) built in - we know radar modules extend the range, but I'm not sure if the resolution is also replaced. E.g. ship has short-range radar with good resolution, but player adds radar module with long-range radar with bad resolution. Ha, what happens?

-
I'm going to try stacking 4 stealth modules on a fighter and see if targets respond to me. The Ghost module gives 80% cloaking, so 4 of them should give me 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 x 0.2 = 0.0016 to apply to base EPR. If distance is not factored into radar calculation then I should be invisible and not be attacked by hostile targets no matter how close I get.

I'll remove the fighter's guns so he doesn't start firing as soon as he is in range, and switch missiles to off. That way I won't "hit first".

Update:
Well, 4x Ghosts renders me close to undetectable. Crap. You can see in the screenshot, I'm practically escorting those pirates (Hero's ship has higher speed).

Hmm, game crashed - LOGfile.txt is complaining can't load textures. Could be mod trouble, I loaded an earlier save which didn't have Fleet mod installed. Wait, I thought I downloaded the mothership mod-compatible carcasses.xml. Nanaki you wanna take a look and see if it means anything?

Damn, can't do more testing now, gotta take young cousins out to amusement park lol.

Update:
Huh, guess what - the targets still don't react even if you start breaking out with the missiles and ramming it up their rear ends at point blank. They just keep on flying even though they're getting blasted to bits by my stealthed ship - which was flying so close to them it was practically escorting them.

I'm gonna see if they react if my stealthed ship has guns and starts shooting them up.

Update:
Wow, totally unexpected. They don't even freaking react to guns. My fighter just sat there behind them blowing them out of the sky one by one at leisure.

One strange thing though, surely some enterprising player has attempted full stealth before. I mean, all you have to do is park the mothership somewhere safe, like several clicks above the system plane, and then send one full stealth fighter out to kill everyone. It's not like it's particularly complicated.

im wandering what would happend if had 2 tm members each set on stealth with 4 black holes a piece, on paper it should be even better then ghost * 4 as it allows u to fully gear out 4 other tmates with beneficial stuff.

[stivoknis]

I was looking through the Carcasses file, and I noticed that all of the ships in the game have a threat level and this level increases in value with bigger and more deadlier ships.

If this threat level has anything to deal with the AI then that would explain why a character in a 5th generation ship, while everyone else is in a 3nd gen ship, would die within the first 30 seconds of a fight because it gets caught in like five different crossfires. But when I put that same character in a 1st gen, the enemies seem to ignore him unless he is the only character within firing range.

This threat level appears to deal with which fighter the enemies feel is the bigger threat and consequencely is the first fighter which they attack. If this is correct then a fighter with a higher threat level then the mothership should draw all of the enemy fire away from the other ships.