Patch 4.10 - Development Updates by Daidalos Team

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Originally Posted by KWM_Rammbock

Hello all.
I would like to ask if the 109g6 FM and armour performances have been decreased in 4.09m, and if German FMs and armour will again be decreased in 4.10m.
Indeed it appears that 109 pilots get easily killed in their cockpit, much more frequently than with the previous versions.

Yours.
KWM_Rammbock

Placebo effect? the FM is the same of 4.08...

[Flanker35M]

S!

Bf109 has always been the glass jawed fighter in IL-2 It was far worse in the beginning whn a single ping from even the small caliber MG's from any angle from even 1km away would spill oil on your screen. It changed, but there are still a lot of things in DM that leave things to be desired.

As a real life comparison Finns removed the pilot armor from the Curtiss 75A Hawk as it was incapable of stopping even a 7.7mm bullet from close range. The reduced weight gave some extra, not much but anyway, climb to the plane. Again on the Bf109 there were many occasions the plane came back after being hit by a Yak or LA and the pilot armor had stopped the 20mm bullet from coming through.

But the root of the problem is that we can shoot and fly better VIRTUALLY than the real pilots. Our accuracy is better, we have this idiotic zoom feature etc. In real life kills were harder to get and in most of cases bounces. So this just shows the flaws in game engine more clearly, and it can be in any game really, not just IL-2. All we do is learn to game the game to survive a tad longer, sad but true.

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

But the root of the problem is that we can shoot and fly better VIRTUALLY than the real pilots. Our accuracy is better, we have this idiotic zoom feature etc.

Concerning "...this idiotic zoom feature...". Oleg himself has stated that the zoomed-in view (in-game 'Gunsight View') is the most realistic perspective view compared to what a pilot would see in real life.

Aviar

[MikkOwl]

I used to agree with Flanker (Moi moi) that the zoom was unreal. Buuut, have come to discover that it is dependant on the display size, view distance from display, and the resolution of display.

It is true that for most larger modern monitors (24" 16:10 1920x1200 viewed from 50cm distance) the scale is too large - objects appear larger than they would in reality to our actual eyes. But the resolution is lacking. As a consequence, when using the smallest available FOV (gunsight) in IL-2:

1. Objects are larger than reality.
2. Objects appear closer than reality.
3. Movement is easier to detect than reality (not significant as view field is tiny).
4. Objects are considerably less detailed than reality, appearing smudged (pixellated) - not only for the larger scale that the zoom in view shows, but even compared to real eyes, real cockpit, real FOV.

It is a compromise, trading distorted scale and peripheral vision for more object detail (and even then it is not enough compared to reality). This is no doubt what Oleg was trying to communicate.

If we used real FOV (number dependant on user display size, resolution and distance from view screen. Fov 55 at the example specs given above at 50cm from screen), scale and distance would be correct but objects would be 'blurred' with pixellation, severely impairing gunnery.

I do wish that Team Daidalos could include a FOV calculator with a patch but I don't think that will happen.

I use max FOV (WIDE) for general flying despite feeling the pain of distorted scale and pixellation. FOV 55 (surprise!) for looking at instruments, non-distant gunnery and looking around. And min FOV (Gunsight) for viewing objects at a distance, trying to ID objects and medium/long range gunnery. All three controlled by a single button.

Not one of the three are in any way as good as the constant real FOV of reality would have offered in the real aircraft. Better than reality will only occur with LARGE view screens together with HIIIIGH resolution. As hardware improves, minimum FOV in games will become cheaty in that it will be possible to gun more accurately and most of all, identify friend or foe from further out than reality. But apart from moving from crappier than reality to better than reality, the impact will be no different to the disparity already exists because of hardware differences between users.

Armed with this knowledge, IL-2 hardcore pilots with more flight time, more training, extreeemely much more air combat experience and possibly thousands of kills more than any WW2 pilot; having access to 70 years of collective recorded analysis and knowledge since the war began, being able to experiment in ways that no pilots have been able to in reality in putting their aircraft and lives in harms way... these guys posess unbelievable marksmanship and piloting skills and would become legendary aces had they gone back in time to fly in WW2 (not counting the other real strains of war). The superior in quality and quantity Allied pilots in Western Europe in the late war fighting few and poorly trained Axis pilots made the American aircraft used historically seem better than they were, and the Axis aircraft worse. Our hardened IL-2 virtual veterans have a similar effect on ahistorical outcomes of air combat.

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

Armed with this knowledge, IL-2 hardcore pilots with more flight time, more training, extreeemely much more air combat experience and possibly thousands of kills more than any WW2 pilot; having access to 70 years of collective recorded analysis and knowledge since the war began, being able to experiment in ways that no pilots have been able to in reality in putting their aircraft and lives in harms way... these guys posess unbelievable marksmanship and piloting skills and would become legendary aces had they gone back in time to fly in WW2 (not counting the other real strains of war). The superior in quality and quantity Allied pilots in Western Europe in the late war fighting few and poorly trained Axis pilots made the American aircraft used historically seem better than they were, and the Axis aircraft worse. Our hardened IL-2 virtual veterans have a similar effect on ahistorical outcomes of air combat.

Spot on. Can't wait to read the maddened reactions of the masses when Project Galba is released and every online Mig-15 driver is a honcho. Those F-86A jocks will be crying FM fouls to no end...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by _RAAF_Firestorm

Spot on. Can't wait to read the maddened reactions of the masses when Project Galba is released and every online Mig-15 driver is a honcho. Those F-86A jocks will be crying FM fouls to no end...

So true!

I think I'm going to find myself flying a Meteor (hopefully ) and sidestep that argument

[Feathered_IV]

Very sorry to hear that the patch has been delayed and won't be out for Easter. I'd forgotten my usual scepticism about release dates this time.

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Gitano

Placebo effect? the FM is the same of 4.08...

Or effect of misfortune.

[KWM_Rammbock]

thank you for your swift replies!
Then it seems that even if the fms are the same, the damage models have changed, pilots are more vulnerable within their cockpits. Or is there a difference in armour between the "Bf-109G-6_Erla" and the "Bf-109G-6Erla"

Eventhough i am complaining about certain details, i think daidalos team is doing some great work. can not wait for the 4.10 new features.

Yours
KWM_Rammbock

[AndyJWest]

is there a difference in armour between the "Bf-109G-6_Erla" and the "Bf-109G-6Erla"

No idea. They are mod aircraft (or at least not names from unmodded IL-2). Stock Bf 109 Gs:

Since you are talking about mods, the DM, FM and who knows what else might be different. TD are upgrading stock IL-2, not modded versions.