Friday 2010-03-05 Screenshots/Video and Discussion Thread

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

Gunsights, especially the off set ones in the 109 and 190 are currently a pain unless you are using trackir or the F1 key in Il2.
However this scews your field of view up.
What I would like to see is a key bind that moves your head in line with the sight with out any zooming so that you can fly and shoot as you would in any other plane with a clear view of the sight.
This should be enabled in all planes that have sight view difficulties.
While the F1 key solved the problem it artificially limited the field of view as an undesired consequence.
A key press that allows you to look through the sight as if you had just moved the position of your head for a brief second and once you release it returns to normal would be a great idea.

Please tell me some soulution like this is being considered.
Nothing is worse than flying in a 109 and seeing half a gunsight even when you zoom in unless you press F1 and reduce your overall field of view.

I was thinking about it. However if to make something other than in Il-2 by using CTRL+F1, that sould be something replace it.

I think that simply two buttons control should be replaced by one for more easy use.
And I don't think that this button should be holded by finger untill you finish shooting... gunsight view is neccessay all the time when you continue aiming

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

I was thinking about it. However if to make something other than in Il-2 by using CTRL+F1, that sould be something replace it.

I think that simply two buttons control should be replaced by one for more easy use.
And I don't think that this button should be holded by finger untill you finish shooting... gunsight view is neccessay all the time when you continue aiming

I have no issue with the CTL+F1 to centre gun sight as a universal fix but it reduces your field of view FOV dramatically.
While a simple head movement would allow the same thing to be done without the enforced FOV reduction.
Being forced to fly a 109 with an off-centre sight and only have CTRL+F1 as a solution is not ideal. A key you can toggle on an off, press once for on, press again to turn off that will shift your virtual head in line with your sight as you engage the target should be workable.
Even if it is very far down the list of things to do I would greatly appreciate it as an option as I am sure many virtual pilots would. Even if it does not make the initial release.

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

Gunsights, especially the off set ones in the 109 and 190 are currently a pain unless you are using trackir or the F1 key in Il2.
However this scews your field of view up.
What I would like to see is a key bind that moves your head in line with the sight with out any zooming so that you can fly and shoot as you would in any other plane with a clear view of the sight.
This should be enabled in all planes that have sight view difficulties.
While the F1 key solved the problem it artificially limited the field of view as an undesired consequence.
A key press that allows you to look through the sight as if you had just moved the position of your head for a brief second and once you release it returns to normal would be a great idea.


Nothing is worse than flying in a 109 and seeing half a gunsight even when you zoom in unless you press F1 and reduce your overall field of view.

The field of view is the same in both modes. But the gunsight mode is almost always view moved forward in the cockpit (instrument panel is thus closer to the face and so on). I presume this is what you do not like.

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

I was thinking about it. However if to make something other than in Il-2 by using CTRL+F1, that sould be something replace it.

I think that simply two buttons control should be replaced by one for more easy use.
And I don't think that this button should be holded by finger untill you finish shooting... gunsight view is neccessay all the time when you continue aiming

USING HEAD TRACKING (OPTIONAL)

IF:

1. Z axis (moving forward/backward) a little bit forward
2. Yaw (look left/right) near center forward.
3. Pitch (look up/down) near center forward.

THEN: View (X and Y movement) moves to the right, centering gunsight and remains locked. Speed of transition determined by how close to center & zoomed in & lean forward. Z, Yaw, Roll and Pitch not locked, but if Z is too far back, gunsight mode stops.

NOTES:

• Transition speed being adjustable is important - we want it to be able to be smooth and slow so it is not a sudden transition, especially if by accident. But still be very fast when we have to aim quickly in dogfight.
• Moving back (Z axis) resumes normal view.
• Z axis because in reality anyone gunning through the sights would lean forward a little to see the target in the gunsight. Also stops unecessary 'gunsight centering' when we are just looking around.
• Centering zone and Z axis requirement customizable by users.

NON HEAD TRACKING

Gunsight mode not moved forward (Z axis) automatically, so can fly around like that if one wants.


1 BUTTON FOV CONTROL FOR ALL MODES

User defines 3 desired fov levels. GUNSIGHT, NORMAL, WIDE.

If pressing button: toggle WIDE FOV and NORMAL FOV.

Holding button 0.3 seconds = GUNSIGHT FOV (does not need to hold button more. Mode stays). Pressing button in any way then returns to WIDE FOV.

_____

I fly in IL-2 with the 1 button fov method. Convenient, quick, reliable, simple to use and instant to learn. Three FOV levels can cover all situations. For 2-3 months I kept improving a method for FOV control. Used three buttons, then two, then one.

[Feuerfalke]

Why not simply add an ability to save head positions?

[Bobb4]

When you are in your cockpit with wide field of view or normal field of view and you press SHFT+F1 (the keys used to centre the 109 or 190 sight artificially)your view is zoomed in a bit as the sight is centred.
This has not much to do with gunsight view. The moment you un-centre the gunsight the FOW is returned to normal.
Do some tests and you will see that using SHIFT+F1 significantly reduces your FOV and thus your overall SA.
What I am hoping to achieve with a simple head movement is to be able to strafe ground targets or air targets without losing some SA by default because the FOV has been decreased.
I do not use trackir, I use my left hand on the mouse so other solutions will not work for me. It's basically an immersion thing for me. when you press SHFT+F1 you feel constrained, and are reminded you are flying a sim, a simple slight head movement to the right without any zoom will help keep the immersion alive.
As I have said no biggy, just a suggestion. I hope everyone now understands what i am refering to.
My appologies, the key I was refering to is shift + F1 and not Ctrl + F1

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

When you are in your cockpit with wide field of view or normal field of view and you press CTRL+F1 (the keys used to centre the 109 or 190 sight artificially)your view is zoomed in a bit as the sight is centred.
This has not much to do with gunsight view. The moment you un-centre the gunsight the FOW is returned to normal.
Do some tests and you will see that using CTRL+F1 significantly reduces your FOV and thus your overall SA.

Just to make sure I was not crazy, I did go and check, and I used the devicelink interface to make IL-2 display the exact FOV being used. I tried both modes, any fov, etc. The results are:

They are the exact same in both modes. The current FOV setting is carried over between the modes. So switching at 'normal' fov between them, it will still be normal, until one changes to another FOV at some point.

The only thing that happens is that the view is recentered, and the Z axis (the head's position, forward/backward wise) is set more forward in gunsight mode. This must be what you believe is the FOV switching. It does not zoom in, just moves closer, so to speak. An optical illusion. It can cause view limitations of course, if the canopy pillar bars obscure the view.

[Flanker35M]

S!

How about 6DOF + if using snap views you can save head positions. This is used in Aces High online WW2 combat sim. Simple and works.

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

How about 6DOF + if using snap views you can save head positions. This is used in Aces High online WW2 combat sim. Simple and works.

maybe.

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

This must be what you believe is the FOV switching. It does not zoom in, just moves closer, so to speak. An optical illusion. It can cause view limitations of course, if the canopy pillar bars obscure the view.

I will not argue whether it is an optical illusion or not but when I lose a good 10% or more of my viewing area I will say I have lost a great deal of SA.
If your theory holds true then looking backwards I should have an increased FOV. Test that out and you will then discover be it a head movement forward as you claim or an optical illusion your FOV is restricted in any direction you choose to look from normal view...
Put your self in a bomber pilot seat and you will inderstand.
Use Shift + F1 and you will suddenly find your view restricted no matter which direction you look.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

I will not argue whether it is an optical illusion or not but when I lose a good 10% or more of my viewing area I will say I have lost a great deal of SA.
If your theory holds true then looking backwards I should have an increased FOV. Test that out and you will then discover be it a head movement forward as you claim or an optical illusion your FOV is restricted in any direction you choose to look from normal view...
Put your self in a bomber pilot seat and you will inderstand.
Use Shift + F1 and you will suddenly find your view restricted no matter which direction you look.

Sure, but that's how it is in reality as well, If you're looking down the sights of a gun your view IS limited compared to just loosely look in the direction your gun is roughly pointing.