Friday 2010-03-05 Screenshots/Video and Discussion Thread

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Qpassa

In my opinion the swastikas should be included

No it shouldn't.

a) because of the legal problems in several countries
b) because you can make your own skins with swatiskas, if you want them.
c) because there will be a mod enabling swatiskas and then Oleg won't be the one to blaim.

[Qpassa]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

No it shouldn't.

a) because of the legal problems in several countries
b) because you can make your own skins with swatiskas, if you want them.
c) because there will be a mod enabling swatiskas and then Oleg won't be the one to blaim.

Well I just want the most real game, I know that it is forbid in Germany, but not in my country. Could be make an option in the install...
I hope some modder do it

[Lucas_From_Hell]

IMHO, it's simple.

Planes with swastikas are historically correct. Erasing them and pretending they never existed, as done in Germany and a few other countries, won't change a thing - it's history, it happened, deal with it. Having a plane without swastikas when it actually had is as wrong as having a pink Spitfire as default. "If you don't like it, just make a skin yourself."

It's useless to fight the law ("...and the law won"), we probably won't change it. I for myself think it's just complete bullshit to try to erase it, but so what? The folks making the laws think otherwise, and I'm not too sure, but they probably don't care about my opinion.

Having it as optional is fine. Oleg can't go in trouble because he gave an option to have them, anyway. Pretend Maddox Games is a weapon maker, Storm of War is the gun. Guns can kill, and killing is sort of illegal in most places. Can they go in trouble if the costumer bought his product and commited a crime with it?

I'm not aware of how the laws apply in Germany, Hungary, Austria and co., so it might actually be considered illegal, but it makes no sense whatsoever.

Something that could work would be having some sort of official patch for enabling swastikas. So those interested in having them could just download the files, install/copy them into Storm of War's root folder, and done. Those who don't want it, just don't download it.

(Is the text actually understandable? I can rewrite it if necessary, it might be a bit confusing)

[virre89]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

No it shouldn't.

a) because of the legal problems in several countries
b) because you can make your own skins with swatiskas, if you want them.
c) because there will be a mod enabling swatiskas and then Oleg won't be the one to blaim.

Not being allowed to have swastikas in the game is as ridiculous as the gore censorship that exists in germany and australia. Politicians need to grow up.

[csThor]

I actually asked Oleg on his stance to something similar but not SoW related and he said that there was a new law in Russia which apparently makes it problematic to use the swastika in computer games. This is my reading of his reply, but that's beside the issue.

German law is quite clear: No swastika at all, except in art, education or documentation. Computer games are just that - games (or toys, as several courts have said). Even having it optional is prohibited here so I guess unless Oleg does a specific german release version (for which there is no indication so far - the same policy as with Il-2 seems to be in place) he won't ship the game with swastikas as default (or even option). So IMO the best option is to make provisions for historical markings but not ship the graphical files with the game. Leave open the marking gfx to the user and he can easily insert the relevant files when he feels like it. Same for the Finns and et voila ... everyone's happy.

EDIT: I think the german law is spot on given our unique history. I do not want to see the right-wing idiots marching through our streets with the Reichskriegsflagge so a few hoops to jump through for accurate markings is a price I'm prepared to pay.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Hey, judging from what I've seen in the updates and in Il-2, it's art, education and documentation on my book

But just a question, the German law covers even pre-Nazi swastikas?

[Ernst]

Stalin murdered millions people in Siberia prisons and no one complains about the Red Star. There is the right-wing idiots and the left-wing idiots. Difference is that the last win the war.

If you wanna use pink spitfire i have no objection, we must respect sexual orientation diversity...

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Ernst, actually, in Hungary the Red Star (actually, all "totalitarian symbols", if I remember correctly) is forbidden as well

[Foo'bar]

Here we go again... Hakenkreuze - the most useless discussion ever. Don't waste your energy on that.

[koivis]

I think the banning of the Finnish Air Force swastika in Germany is very stupid, since Finland had just as little in common with the German Nazi party between 1917 and 1941 as did any other European country.

However, the German law says:

(1) Whoever:

1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or

2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,

shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

I think the last sentence is what makes ANY swastika illegal there. End of discussion, please.