i 153 in real

[Gilly]

Originally Posted by winny

No it isn't it's one of the urban myths. There are examples of the word dating back way further than that..

earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535 -- "Bischops ... may **** thair fill and be vnmaryit" [Sir David Lyndesay, "Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"]

All of the acronyms are urban myths. There's loads of them.
When he was compiling the first dictionary Dr Johnson excluded the word, and **** wasn't in a single English language dictionary from 1795 to 1965.

The earliest version on record is recorded in the OED 2nd edition and cites 1503, in the form fukkit;

Correct! Isn't QI brilliant!!!!!

[winny]

Originally Posted by Gilly

Correct! Isn't QI brilliant!!!!!

I love QI but didn't get the info there (didn't know they'd done ****!) I got it from an Etymology book. I like to know my word derivations.

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

From the dedicated website "Annals Of The Brewster Buffalo", which has everything from the RAF evaluation tests in July 1940 to pilot's combat reports through to statistics. Lists of Commonwealth Buffalo aces are also given.

The Buffalo was the most successful fighter of WW2 with a 40:1 kill to loss ratio. The Fins managed a 38:1 kill to loss ratio and the Commonwealth pilots still managed a 2:1 kill to loss ratio.

Against the A6M Zero it enjoyed a 1.39:1 kill to loss ratio.

The Fins manufactured their own engine parts and other spares for the Buffalo and also fitted bigger cylinder bores in line with Wright's own improvements.

Note that the Humu (Reckless) flew with a 950 HP engine taken from an I-153and was found to be underpowered compared to the 1,100 HP Cyclone.

The P-36 A-3 had a 950 HP engine, whilst the ex-French Airforce "Cauldron" P-36 A-4 aircraft, bought from the Nazi's, were powered by 1,100 HP engines.

One unusual feature of a Buffalo, which is never found on any other fighter, is a seperate cargo hold and seperate passenger space under the pilot.

The maximum range of a Buffalo is 1,065 miles without drop tanks or 10.5 hours in the air.

You do realize, that the only Buffalos that were sent to Finland, were F2A-1's which were powered by R-1820-34 Cyclones that were only 940-50hp. The British Commonwealth, Dutch, and the American serviced Buffalo's were later powered by the R-1820-40 that had the 1,1-1,200hp engines because after Finland allied with Germany, America quit sending Buffalo parts to Finland, and they were forced to use the Russian M-62-63s that were the Soviet copies of the R-1820-34 Cyclones. There's no way Finland could have been given later modeled Buffalos because of their alliance with Germany.

So once again, the only Buffalo's Finland owned were the 44 F2A-1s that had the -34 Cyclone which only had 940-50hp. There's no where that I can find in my books, or the internet that say the Finnish manufactured their own Cyclone type engines. They did however take the spare parts off ruined/crashed I-153s and I-16s that would fit with their Cyclone engines.

EDIT: See, you're looking at the -2 and -3 Buffalo's which had the 1,1-1,200hp. Both of which were terrible because Doolittle was pushing for high octane fuel (high leaded gasoline), and also because they were fitted with more junk. That's the reason the Finnish had such a great success with the Buffalo was because they didn't mess around with adding stuff. They more or less just skeletonize'd the damn thing for lighter weight, while the Americans at Midway had heavier Buffalos.

[Panzergranate]

The Fins also received a number of Belgian B-239s, with the more powerful engines, that the Germans had discovered still crated up.

A number of these also saw service with the Luftwaffe as advanced trainers and one was found, and photographed, on an airfield in Luftwaffe markings.

The original Buffaloes may have came with 950 HP engines, but the Fins did increase the performance of the engines, as they did with the Moraine Ms-406, Fokker D-21 and other aircraft in their possesion.

The Fins were already manufacturing Bristol Centaurus engines and manufactiring Blenhiem IV bombers throughout the Continuation War.

The Fins had examples of the more powerful Cyclones in their possesion, from the P-36 A-4, and simply fitting the their own manufactured spare cylinders and pistons was performed.

One problem that the 1,100 HP Cyclone engine was plagued with was oil leaking past the oil rings of the top 3 cylinder pistons and fouling the spark plug when the engine was flown inverted or under negative G. It is documented, on the Annals of the Buffalo website, that the Fins solved this by simply inverting the oil rings on the top 3 pistons on the 1,100 HP engines.

As only the 1,100 HP and 1,200 HP Cyclone engines suffered from this problem, it proved that the Fins had upgraded their engines to a higher power output.

The only difference between the 950 HP, 1,100 HP and 1,200 HP Cyclone engines is the cubic capacity.

[Soviet Ace]

So I checked out that site on the Buffalo, that you provided, and I found several mistakes in it that several of my books, and sites I've looked at contradict.

First off, the R-1820-34 and R-1820-G5 are NO different from one another. If the guy who had written that had bothered to look deeper into the engines, he would have realized, that any plane, engine, whatever that is sent from the US or any other nation to another nation is never designated the same as it originally was. There is no difference between the -34 and -G5 besides designation.

Secondly, these Belgian Buffalo's were never sent to Finland by Germany, and were not "crated up". What they were, was Buffalos that had been sent by the US to Belgium, but before they could get into combat were captured, where only two were recorded as making the trip to France before their collapse under the Nazi Blitzkrieg. The captured Buffalos were then used as either scrap metal, or used as trainers. Some were even sent to Vichy French in the Med.

Third, his report of the Battle between Brewsters, Yaks, Las, and LaGG's is incorrect. The actual dogfight, there were four Buffalos gunned down, not two. Where Three Yak-1s and two LaGG-3s were downed. The La-5s held their own just fine, and all them made it back home.

We've already had a mix up with the Vindicator and Sea Wolf, and I think this is just another mix up.