Friday 2010-01-22 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread

[virre89]

Originally Posted by =815=TooCooL

Oh no Here comes a fanboy.
I second Zealu's points.
Seeing that video, i know it is beta, but anyone but fanboy can see and speak what doesn't look right.
Self shadow is gorgeous and poly count is impressive but cloud and water is that of il-2.
How about coop with gaijin entertainment guys.(kidding, that would be impossible)
Their flight game is no where close to il-2 in sim aspect but did outstanding job in graphic, atmosphere, and clouds. (Behold overcast clouds in wop)
I know you're busy, but I appreciate you taking the time to play WoP and find what is missing in il-2 and BOB beta video.
Writing it on phone so plz bear my spells.

Funny you say that, maybe check my history of posts and you'll find out i am quite the opposite. Stop acting like a tech expert instead and get a life. Just because i dont nitpick a video doesn't mean i don't care for details or realism or i wouldn't even be here in the first place. Besides, try show some constructive criticism when you've a case instead.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

People need to calm down...... constructive criticism is good. Being a fanbois contributes nothing to the game. Zaelu expressed points made by many (plus English is not his native language)

The shaking is too much .... at least 3 real pilots have pointed that out. Lets fix and move on.

For the rest .... yeah nice vid .... but not mind blowing .... even Luthier said that .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by 13th Hsqn Protos

People need to calm down...... .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

This made me smile coming from you.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Cheap shot all you like...... I know I have brought about positive change in this sim.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by 13th Hsqn Protos

People need to calm down...... constructive criticism is good. Being a fanbois contributes nothing to the game. Zaelu expressed points made by many (plus English is not his native language)

The shaking is too much .... at least 3 real pilots have pointed that out. Lets fix and move on.

For the rest .... yeah nice vid .... but not mind blowing .... even Luthier said that .... chill out .... LOOOOOONG way to go still.

I think half the problem here is the fact that your responses come over as being arrogant and rude, whether you mean them to or not is another matter.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

You guys only talk about remove it, don't put it and etc.

Think big, this is a free world - make it switcheable, then everyone's happy.

And, guys, for heaven's sake, stop thinking you know more about flying than the devs do. I don't remember where I saw it, but if I remember correctly, Oleg was (is?) a pilot himself, so I'm pretty sure he knows how does it work.

The Storm of War x Wings of Prey debate is pointless. Two different approaches, with different public as well. While one tries to make graphics look only realistic, without making it too fancy, the other introduce a rather darker atmosphere, that gives a sort of dramatic feeling to it, and calls for more action. Would be interest to have both as an option, though.

However, I'm not sure if it fits Maddox Games' general idea for Storm of War to have unrealistic eye-candies just because they give a nice movie-style feeling to the whole thing.

I won't go any further because this is a thread dedicated to the updates, and not whining and another WoP debate which will end with WoP guys defending it blindly and the rest flaming it completely.

Also, people like to point to the devs that 2+2=4 and etc. without even reading the Q&A on the requests thread. Most things people complain and ask about have been explained more than a hundred times by the poor developers. They know how it should look, trust me.

Got a bit immersed in the rant and forgot to comment on the update!

Ilya, the screenshots are amazing. Nice look from the BR.20 cockpit. The Lorenz looks very nice (curiously, it's different than Team Daidalos one for Il-2). The detail on ships sometimes make me wonder if this is a new Silent Hunter or a flight simulator. Truly amazing. The water looks very nice. Now where's my life-jacket?

Now Ilya, let's admit it: MuxaHuk totally stole your thunder this time. And, hell, he should do it more often!

Unpolished or anything you want to call it, that's still a piece of art! Very pleasant sensation of being in a smooth level flight... and then jumping to a hardcore roller-coaster. Really, really nice. I can't get tired of seeing that Spitfire cockpit. Absolutely perfect.

And yes, unfortunately (), you'll probably have to feed us with some moving action more often

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by zaelu

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

You really shouldn't act like some kind of expert when you obviously don't know your subject matter. The reflector sight optics are designed to stay put while your head shakes and moves about. Watch this demonstration on youtube if you need proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXsVg8F91t8

I think there are more constructive ways of making your point without resorting to that kind of blunt attack packed full of negativity. That video was a materpiece and it isn't even finished yet. There's just no pleasing some folk.

And no, I'm no fanboy...just someone who believes in giving credit where credit is due.

[Freycinet]

Yeah, Zaelu definitely got his looong analysis of a reflector gunsight dead wrong. And the thing about the shadows, but he went back on that, it seems. But he's not short on self-confidence when it comes to "giving the team advice" so that's excellent!

[Waaagh]

Originally Posted by zaelu

I saw the little movie and I would like to say this:

1. The movie was posted maybe as a response to the comments of some that were not impressed anymore by the still updates etc. So if those comments were not posted... maybe this video wasn't posted.
2. I am not particularly impressed by the movie... sorry. Is not something I didn't see before. I was expecting the shadows to move in the cockpit not to be prerendered and painted on it..you know. Also I think we saw them before in the Hurri right? I knew the level of detail of the Spit pit.
3. The shaking... is imho a fake try to express the tremor/shake the plane has in real life but is placed (like in many many other games) where it is suppose not to exist - in the eyes. As Protos said, the neck and head acts as dampers and I add that the eyes have "steady cam" tech in the muscles that operates them and are surrounded by fat and are full of "gelly" fluid that do the same... they absorb vibrations. On top of that comes the big "computer" on the back side of them... the brain that not only post process the image to cut out the undesired and hindering things but when the "conscience" analyze the reality through the see sense is taking "shaking" into account only to acknowledge the existence of those undesired and maybe worrying natural factors.
For me that is like the fake "bass" from small earplugs for audio players... you can swear it sounds with plenty of realistic bass but that's till you fell the real bass from some powerful speakers.
What's more funny, is that is obvious is just a cool "realistic" effect made by the devs, cause the gunsight reflex circle is not shaking almost at all... cause they know you couldn't aim if "the dance" would be on everything . And in this way looks even more silly. I would preffer removing it for good and just put a plugin for those buttshakers in the game market.
4. I would like to see the medium and atmospherics of SoW... I know I will have to wait more but this is what I want to see... No... I am not impressed of those clouds as they look just like IL-2 clouds just a bit longer... Is the same "synthetisation" of clouds that looks technically close to reality but very unrealistic in the end as a feel. Like the sounds in Il-2... kind of. The water reflection... ok... nice effect but water is still close to IL-2 one just 2-3 visual things added but, no real waves... no etc. If is not close to the one in SH4-5 is not counting as "Wow!". The ground is visible a bit in that movie and is just a place holder... so it is better not to be counted.

Sorry if I sound negativistic but, I believe the team doesn't need now a pleased crowd that goes "uh!-oh!" at anything the put out on the updates. They need feedback and if we the fans are not "harsh" a bit and "demanding" the real unseen crowd that will buy the game will do it after release by not buying it. Which will be bad.

Basically, besides the level of details that are very high in some places (poligon counts etc) the SoW wip updates still looks visually under that WoP game. No... the simulation can not count now, as is not depicted in the screenshots too much.
I sure hope that when all parts of the game will come together the game will shine but, the current state of updates just show be that there is still a lot of work to be done and the team is at it.

So... keep it up team!

This one is kind of silly so I felt the need to crawl out of hiding and respond.

I don´t know which video you watched, but the one I saw ->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCI...layer_embedded

<- has moving dynamic shadows.

For the ´pit shaking: that´s overthinking it. I hear the same argument from people who want to get rid of the headbob in Arma2, and it´s silly. It´s an atmospheric that´s supposed to convey the fact that you´re flying a 1200 hp monster of a plane, and do that so impressively that you forget that you´re actually sitting nice and comfy in front of a computer.
The only argument I´d count is that people can get sick from it, so having this scaleable would be sensible. Otherwise, this state of the art, and I can appreciate the effort put into this.

Other people have mentioned the collimator sight before, so I won´t go into that. It´s been a functional feature in IL-2 too, so if one has played that they should be familiar with it.

For the clouds, I suggest you go back to the video and watch the Video in HD. At around 0:20 you can see the clouds coming into view on the left: notice the soft gradient of colour, as well as how the light plays around the edges. Also, dynamic shadows cast by the clouds onto the sea surface.
At 1:11 you can briefly see the brightly lit trim around the clouds edges where the sun his shining down between them. The glare on the sea surface is also (it seems) shaped by the clouds above it.

All in all, I´m really impressed by this video, despite the lack of sound and its shortness. Can´t wait to see how everything looks when it has come together: 2009 was a year of gaming disappointments for me, so SoW can only make it better.

Cheers

[Romanator21]

<<The gunsight is slightly shaded/tinted I think, or polarized maybe (I know some aircraft in WWII had polarized gunsights) - so the sky can look darker through them, and reflections are cut from the shine on the sea.>>

Maybe, but the effect flickers on and off, which says to me it's a bug. It's also interesting that clouds disappear under the gun-sight.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-51-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-52-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-53-00.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...5-01-54-01.jpg