"Wings" Of Prey (PC). Watchout Oleg!

[Flanker35M]

S!

SoW will require a very high end machine to run all the bells and whistles. AS you have read, DirectX 11 can use CPU to calculate those gfx gimmicks the GPU does not support. And we know that the FM/DM/AI are already calculated by the CPU so this is only extra stress to it thus lowering performance. SoW will be way more complicated and will require a lot of horsepower, but that is the price to pay for more fidelity and all that

It is surprising how well IL2 engine still holds on after 10 years. Modified in RoF and WoP and see what you get! Totally new effects, smoother gameplay etc. Just a wet dream that the code improvements could be brought to IL2, especially how it handles big cities etc. In WoP Berlin map with tons of buildings did not slow down my rig at all with all maxed out in 1920x1200! In IL2 the same would just make my rig do the slide show

Intel i7 920 CPU
Intel DX58SO motherboard + HD Audio enabled
XFX 5870HD 1Gb graphics card
24" BenQ 16:10 screen
Windows 7 64-bit (home premium)
etc yadda yadda

[Chromius]

Ok so full real sims do not gather the kiddies and relaxed players that form the masses and bring in the dollars.

So what, that does not mean that we need to take a step BACK realism/simulation wise in flight sims. Why cant WoP have a full real settings and a relaxed settings, thus catering to the needs of both parties. Though this would have to include missions from take off to landing.

I am tired of seeing many things take a step back because it does not cater to the masses, look at how the trend in TV and entertainment is to dumb everything down to satisfy everyone.

As for myself I wont support WoP in any way as a serious simmer, I would say it is a great sim for relaxed players, but I do not want that to be the trend that simulations follow. I would rather have people like myself who get shot down a lot in a fighter in full real mp IL-2, stick with it vs jumping ship to something easier and more accessible but hey that's me just being selfish.

I guess I am happy for people that are enjoying it, but many here probably have very different views of the differences of what makes an acceptable Simulation.

Ill always hold out for the most realistic thing. Dont let IL-2 go the way of Papyrus's Nascar series, Falcon 4.0 , Baldurs Gate. (Thank god we are getting SH5)

I am so narrowminded I think I might get some type of "ANTI-Console Gamer" bumpersticker, lol (JK)

[Desode]

Originally Posted by Chromius

Ok so full real sims do not gather the kiddies and relaxed players that form the masses and bring in the dollars.

So what, that does not mean that we need to take a step BACK realism/simulation wise in flight sims. Why cant WoP have a full real settings and a relaxed settings, thus catering to the needs of both parties. Though this would have to include missions from take off to landing.

I am tired of seeing many things take a step back because it does not cater to the masses, look at how the trend in TV and entertainment is to dumb everything down to satisfy everyone.

As for myself I wont support WoP in any way as a serious simmer, I would say it is a great sim for relaxed players, but I do not want that to be the trend that simulations follow. I would rather have people like myself who get shot down a lot in a fighter in full real mp IL-2, stick with it vs jumping ship to something easier and more accessible but hey that's me just being selfish.

I guess I am happy for people that are enjoying it, but many here probably have very different views of the differences of what makes an acceptable Simulation.

Ill always hold out for the most realistic thing. Dont let IL-2 go the way of Papyrus's Nascar series, Falcon 4.0 , Baldurs Gate. (Thank god we are getting SH5)

I am so narrowminded I think I might get some type of "ANTI-Console Gamer" bumpersticker, lol (JK)

Well, to each their own. I guess I'm not a serious simmer since I play DCS and Rof and Il2 and then screw my reputation up by playing a "relaxed SIM like WOP" !

Darn it ! I so wanted to call my self a Serious Simmer ! Where is my Lolly pop and cookies ! I don't want to cry myself to sleep ! LOL


Sorry man, all in good fun I just found that kind of funny.

I'm more concerned with games not using dedicated servers then anything else.
I campaign against that with everything I have in me !
Thanks for the post , Desode

[jippy13]

Privet Oleg,

First, thank you a lot for all the good time I spent playing IL2.

Like some simmers in this forum, I tested the demo version of WoP, and I was really impressed by the detailed graphics of this game, especially during overflights near cities or coasts

However I would not say that this game is a real flight simulator,like IL2. I would say it is between an arcade game and a real flight sim.

But Oleg, please, give us more item on the future bob that should come out this year. The little movie file you posted, is better than nothing, but a beta version of BoB would be a sacred gift for all fans of il2 who are waiting bob as the messiah.

Anyway, Oleg, I really hope that BoB will be released this year and that it will be as successful as its predecessor IL2 because of its graphic qualities and characteristics unique to real flight simulator.

Bonne année 2010 et meilleurs voeux

С новым 2010 годом и наилучшие пожелания

[Flanker35M]

S!

Hard core simmer or not, there are several things in WoP and RoF that clearly show how much IL2 engine can be improved with new code without a totally new GFX engine. IL2 original engine is like 10 years old now and there has not been any major updates in the code even hardware has improved since release.

WoP and RoF take advantage of this and it shows with far better performance in certain conditions, like over cities and with lot of fire/smoke and other action around. If these new code improvements could be brought to IL2 then it's life could be extended a lot longer for those who do not have the money to upgrade for SoW. Because the truth is that you will not run SoW at maximum settings and get smooth game play with most of the "regular" hardware people have these days. The majority still run "normal" machines, not these overclocked high eng beasts. These geeks are a minority or most of them play FPS games mostly.

[JVM]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

there are several things in WoP and RoF that clearly show how much IL2 engine can be improved with new code without a totally new GFX engine.
...
WoP and RoF take advantage of this and it shows with far better performance in certain conditions, like over cities and with lot of fire/smoke and other action around.

You said it...WoP and RoF are 2009 games! They use 2009 programming technologies where Il2 is using at its core 2000 technologies...
You seem surprised that there was no effort to bring these 2009 technologies to IL2...the answer is simple: it is possible, you "just" have to rewrite entirely the Il2 code!

As it happens this exercise is taking place just now under the secret code name SoW-BoB...

From another standpoint, do you really believe it would be financially wise from 1C and MG to try keeping afloat technology-wise an engine as "limited" as Il2? Expectations have leap-frogged several times since Il2 was published; it is unfortunate that so many people will not purchase SoW...according to you, that is!
I had the impression that Oleg's team did know one or two things about performance scaling...

I guess you will purchase it at first sight, like the rest of us....

JV

[sweln]

Well anyway I'm very curious about what will SoW look like with all options activated.
Oleg should post something close to actual footage with most of graphical options activated.

From what I can see ground detail and ground units are REALLY better than what WoP offers (grass, very decent modellisation of tanks, AA canons etc).
Same way, ingame physics and models are better : boats don't just explode always in the same way. Really good.

I'm just worried about all the FX stuff, and I have no idea if SoW will feature many eye candies.

examples :

Self shadow (used in Crysis, Far Cry 2, WoP PC version (only on planes), HAWX, Ghost Recon Warfighter) :


Looks great when applied on clouds. Too bad it's not the case in WoP.

And other stuff like heat effect, haze, real time shadows for everything, etc.

With nowadays computers and the power that will be available in 6 months / 1 year, it is absolutly correct to imagine Crysis (2 years now!) graphical quality in a sim, without activating AA, Anistropic and Vsync.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Hard core simmer or not, there are several things in WoP and RoF that clearly show how much IL2 engine can be improved with new code without a totally new GFX engine. IL2 original engine is like 10 years old now and there has not been any major updates in the code even hardware has improved since release.

WoP and RoF take advantage of this and it shows with far better performance in certain conditions, like over cities and with lot of fire/smoke and other action around. If these new code improvements could be brought to IL2 then it's life could be extended a lot longer for those who do not have the money to upgrade for SoW. Because the truth is that you will not run SoW at maximum settings and get smooth game play with most of the "regular" hardware people have these days. The majority still run "normal" machines, not these overclocked high eng beasts. These geeks are a minority or most of them play FPS games mostly.

The WOP Gaijin game engine has nothing to do with the IL-2 game engine other than WOP borrowing IL-2's FM and AI. WOP does a very good job on their own terrain engine, but I doubt it will stand up to the detail in SOW's terrain engine. Every terrain object in SOW will be more detailed with an elevation terrain that will include river banks.

WOP does a excellent job combining the detail they do have in a very playable frame rate without those ugly LOD pop up buildings etc. Although WOP did this with very small maps.
This will be SOW biggest challenge getting much larger maps with far more detailed objects to work with playable frame rates with no pop ups. This will be quite the feat if they pull it off.

The IL-2 engine is ten years and old and its long past time for the immergence of a new more expandable game engine.

[proton45]

One of the key points of any game, is the ability to suspend ones skepticism to the point where they can (somewhat) forget that they are sitting at a computer playing a game...Anything that is built into a game that can help the player indulge the fantasy is good. In some cases, like with "BoP", the makers attempt to nudge our willingness to "play" by tapping into the fantasy and enthusiasm that one feels while watching a good movie...like "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers". I for one prefer a "closer to reality" look that makes me feel that Im seeing things the way they where "back then"...If I play a game that looks "like the real world" (like I'm looking out the window) then when I see an "ME109" or the "White Cliff of Dover"...I feel transported back in time.

[RomBinDaHouse]

Originally Posted by Chivas

but I doubt it will stand up to the detail in SOW's terrain engine. Every terrain object in SOW will be more detailed with an elevation terrain that will include river banks.

Endless detailing is clear idiotism(based on idialism?) and self-killing. There's deadline for devs\business\human mind\etc. The product must be done when it planned.
You waiting BoB from 2005-2007, you know? Now is 2010.

Originally Posted by Chivas

Although WOP did this with very small maps.

100x100 km is smal for you? U wanna 65000x65000km map, probably whole galaxy modelled? Far from actual reality.
Yeah, maps can be 400x400km and bigger, but goals of this project were another, sorry. It's better when game works smoothly, whithout streaming in this case. Because it made for console market initially. Birds of Prey it calls.

Originally Posted by Chivas

This will be SOW biggest challenge getting much larger maps with far more detailed objects to work with playable frame rates with no pop ups.

For sure, pop-ups,lags,etc PC-games uglies will be present in BoB, 'cos maddox team never work on hard "console" optimization ruled by Sony or Microsoft TCR\TRC-conditions.