What exactly counts as Archers?

[Akimbo]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Yeah, I'm uncertain as well... That was a supposition, but come to think of it, it may not work... Guess we have to test it first

I've been thinking about an archer party for quite a while... I guess I may as well do one. The main thing I'm still pondering about is should I go for Trigger and its built-in archer crit or for Telescopic + Ale barrel (that gives +100% base attack to all archers in addition to a nice crit bonus), because unless I pick a mage, I can't go for both (I need 2 artifact slots for those, and with warrior/paladin + trigger I have only 1)...

It would require some further planning I guess.

Yeah I'm playing a warrior at the moment and was considering Trigger, but I need the slots Moro Dark supplies for the items I have at the moment.

On Moro:

Elven Bow
Elven Crown
Marshal's Baton
Dragon Cloak

On Me:

Elven Crown
Marshal's Baton
Axe of Lightning
Bow of Skill
Slippery Cuirass
Protective Bracelets
Pilgrims Boots
Dragon Chain

I could actually put in the Telescopic sight instead of the Dragon Chain, as I did find one of those. I also have the Barrel, but no Artifact slot to use it in It adds +100% attack, but that's to the base, not modified value I think, so not much use for skele archers. Nice boost to Elven Archers and Hunters though. The crit bonus from Trigger is nice (more so because it applies to a wide range of troops) but as you said, unless you're playing a Mage, you won't have enough slots for Artifacts (Though the Orc Armour Bearer has one I think). I wish I'd started my game as a Mage and found those items now

The Phantom method doesn't work either by the way, so it's impossible to give a single unit 3 turns in one go. It's perfectly possible to give 3 Archer units 2 turns each in one turn though.

As a mage I suppose you could keep up 2xPhantoms every turn since you only need to cast the level 1 version of the spell to get the extra-action skills. The number of troops in the phantom unit doesn't matter. Or cast Mass Precision for 6 Archer attacks all with +40% damage in the first turn...Why oh why don't I have a mage yet. New run through for me soon I guess hehe.

By the way my army for testing was:

Zombies
Paladins
Hunters
Elf Archers
Skeleton Archers

It's also worth noting that the Paladins Second Wind, doesn't work on Undead, so remember to Pass to them with the zombies and phantom the Paladins to Second Wind both Elf units

On a side note I've not found any better gloves (Those are +1 defense +50 leadership) or boots (+1 speed to slowest troops) what do people usually end up using for those slots.

[DGDobrev]

Not bad at all! Right now I must confess that I'm abusing the save game scanner in order to get a favorable start. By that I mean at least a few Elves and Hunters easily accessible (preferaly not in castle Telion/Anorion, as they are protected), telescopic sight, yew bow, dagger of judgment, belt of luck, maybe elven bow... Kinda hard to get it, but we'll see

It will be fun to get a game with critting archers.

EDIT: BTW, in about 5 out of my 15 attempts, there were no hunters or elves at all in the game. That's a disturbing percentage... The scanner sure helps when you want something specific from the game.

[travelingoz]

All you need is 1 stack of paladins and 1 stack of zombies and you can get 3 turns. Like this:-

Archers attack.
Paladins attack.
Cast phantom on paladins or zombies stack.
Next unit to act (either phantom or zombie) cast 2nd wind on archers.
Then next unit to act casts 2nd wind on original Paladin stack.
Archers take 2nd turn to attack.
Original Paladin stack casts 2nd(3rd?) wind on archers.
Bingo!

At least in theory anyway! It's 2 am here and i'm going to bed.

[Akimbo]

Originally Posted by travelingoz

All you need is 1 stack of paladins and 1 stack of zombies and you can get 3 turns. Like this:-

Archers attack.
Paladins attack.
Cast phantom on paladins or zombies stack.
Next unit to act (either phantom or zombie) cast 2nd wind on archers.
Then next unit to act casts 2nd wind on original Paladin stack.
Archers take 2nd turn to attack.
Original Paladin stack casts 2nd(3rd?) wind on archers.
Bingo!

At least in theory anyway! It's 2 am here and i'm going to bed.

lol, well done that does work. If you have one Archer unit it's definitely the best way to make the most of them. If you have 2+ archer units it's probably better to give them an extra action each. Only problem I'm facing is the Paladins awful initiative.

[DGDobrev]

Hmm, I'm kind of displeased with the archer party. I admit that they can dish a lot of damage in no time, but they are way too frail for my liking... Even if you babysit them as best as you can, you will suffer losses (playing on hard, impossible will be even tougher). They also tend to perform very poorly against bosses... But they are fun, I grant that.

[Akimbo]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Hmm, I'm kind of displeased with the archer party. I admit that they can dish a lot of damage in no time, but they are way too frail for my liking... Even if you babysit them as best as you can, you will suffer losses (playing on hard, impossible will be even tougher). They also tend to perform very poorly against bosses... But they are fun, I grant that.

Against the normal "mobs" they perform just fine. Against bosses, I usually only take one with me, sometimes I may even reform my entire army depending on the boss. (Stupid guy in the Mirror tower I'm looking at you.) I also only play on normal mode, since I'm still taking my time over my first run through the game, but it seems if you want to perform well with no/few losses on hard or impossible then you're stuck taking a somewhat generic army through the game. (Paladins, Inquisitors, Mages etc.) On the otherhand though, people love Fairies and they're also very frail, but also a melee unit. I suppose it's mostly down to play style.

I think the most important thing is a decent tanking unit that can be easily ressed. Such as Paladins. Alongside the Target spell.

[DGDobrev]

Hmm, that's my problem indeed

Actually, come to think of it, there is one unit that can fit an archer party - that's the Mage of the Light from the Army of the Light mod. Mass ress, gift, healing, 30% physical resistance... That can be fun.