The Perfect DLC for this X-Mas :(

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by PantherAttack2

You had control over all of those.

How'd you figure? Can you tell all from just a demo? Where's the t/o & landing? (ala IL-2) must be in the full game! Where's the after mission replay? (also IL-2 trademark), must obviously be in the full game ..... and on and on.

Read the reviews "legendary title comes to console" that'll do for me, go buy it. Took it as read that every popular flyable plane would have it's cockpit, well you would wouldn't you, after all it's name suggests ..... it's IL-2!!!

Dont take this personally & I have alot of respect for ppl on this site (yourself included) but I, like others here, am old enough to have experienced times when games WERE great. They never cut corners. I'm going way back to the days of elite etc.

I've played alot of console games & alot of pc sims in my 41 years & I'd like to think I've picked up on some knowledge of this subject over the years. All I'm saying is it's a very wise move for Wings of Prey to drop the IL-2 before it hits PC for fear of it's ability to survive. And will I buy it??? Hell yeah! Now I know what to expect, sure I will.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

...but I, like others here, am old enough to have experienced times when games WERE great. They never cut corners. I'm going way back to the days of elite etc.

Like everything else, big business moved in and its all about getting the product to market with as little cost as possible. The industry is old enough now to have established guidelines for cost-effectiveness, and also projects are too involved to be handled by just a couple of guys (and therefore a couple of salaries). It's sad, but it's the way of the capitalist

On the plus side, games are a hell of a lot more user friendly and polished than they used to be. Just download some PS1 games off the PSN store and see how shockingly unfriendly and rough they can be. And I'm talking about classics like Command & Conquer and Syndicate Wars too, not small titles.

I'm really sorry for all the guys that came into BoP with high expectations from an established franchise. I came in with zero experience of the IL2 name and this game is the best thing since sliced bread. But then I've always maintained that appreciation for something is relative to expectations. No longer to I make the mistake of telling my friends film X, Y or Z is awesome. I just say it's all right and worth checking - I find they enjoy it more then.

[Deascendent]

"the way of the capitalist?? "

WTF? In any other form of government/economy games would be a shit ton worse, wtf is up with all the anti capitalism rhetoric going around these days?? There is not a SINGLE system out there that could or will EVER work better. Ideological idiotic liberalism is taking over every avenue of thought these days... wow, people love to complain about things they don't know anything.. and even worse... they don't have ANY viable replacement for what they're advocating against.

Oh, and enough of the crap about how game makers just want to get their product to market as quick and cheap as possible.. you do realize that idea is complete bullshit, people are smarter than that, most companies realize that with a little more investment and innovation in the product, the gains in more demand will make the extra work worth the effort... god, I can't believe I used to mumble the same liberal ideology... again, people just LOVE to complain without knowing how good we have it... pathetic.


Sorry for the rant.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Deascendent

"the way of the capitalist?? "

WTF? In any other form of government/economy games would be a shit ton worse, wtf is up with all the anti capitalism rhetoric going around these days?? There is not a SINGLE system out there that could or will EVER work better. Ideological idiotic liberalism is taking over every avenue of thought these days... wow, people love to complain about things they don't know anything.. and even worse... they don't have ANY viable replacement for what they're advocating against.

You feel better? I was talking about how business practises don't work in favour of the consumer, unless it happens to coincide with a practise that also benefits the business as well. I was not commenting on systems of government or ideologies. But it sounds like you had an issue you needed to air.

Originally Posted by Deascendent

Oh, and enough of the crap about how game makers just want to get their product to market as quick and cheap as possible.. you do realize that idea is complete bullshit, people are smarter than that, most companies realize that with a little more investment and innovation in the product, the gains in more demand will make the extra work worth the effort... god, I can't believe I used to mumble the same liberal ideology... again, people just LOVE to complain without knowing how good we have it... pathetic.


Sorry for the rant.

That's just not true. Publishers realise that even great games can sink in the market without trace, while the crappiest film license game can and probably will sell tonnes of units despite a critical panning. And why do you think some of the bigger publishers are now happy to put out what essentially amount to betas and then patch them later if the demand requires it? Because it saves them money. Similarly I see time and again cool features get cut in favour of reduced developement and QA time. How does that benefit the end-user?

My point was reinforcing the good and valid point hawk made - games used to be produced with a lot more love and care than they are today. Partly because the business men didn't really understand the creative process involved, and partly because the teams required were a lot smaller.

Just out of interest, do you work in the games industry?

[stealth finger]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

That's just not true. Publishers realise that even great games can sink in the market without trace, while the crappiest film license game can and probably will sell tonnes of units despite a critical panning.

how very tragically true. take il2 and ofp as prime examples. OFP could have been possibly the greatest game ever to grace the consoles. due to publisher interevention. things have been dropped and changed and as a result we agot a neutered feeble version (still fun mind) If extra time and money had gone into it, it wouldve been gaming gold. But alas the old cost/potential payoff ratio comes into play. And with the biggest selling game ever out within a few weeks, naturally the publishers want a piece of that pie, tried to change tables and got thrown out of the resteraunt.

[Deascendent]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

My point was reinforcing the good and valid point hawk made - games used to be produced with a lot more love and care than they are today. Partly because the business men didn't really understand the creative process involved, and partly because the teams required were a lot smaller.

Just out of interest, do you work in the games industry?

No, recent Business grad. That's the only point, but most companies out there realize this, look up ideas behind the innovation adoption curve..

Part of my point is that you can't criticize businesses without criticizing the government that they operate in. That's like criticizing a chess piece for only being able to move diagonally (sp?) LOL. And that the tide of liberal ideology caused by the last U.S. administration has to stop somewhere. I'm tired of kids these days that don't know a clue about how our economies work and how they got to this point today.. It has got to the point where most kids are thinking that the Daily Show and Colbert Report are serious news-worthy opinions!!! And this is coming from a person that voted for OBAMA!!!!!

But my biggest point is that in times of peace and prosperity, we will always find something to complain about, and sooner or later down the line we start to convince ourselves that those little flaws make the whole system worth throwing out.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Deascendent

Part of my point is that you can't criticize businesses without criticizing the government that they operate in.

That's like criticizing a chess piece for only being able to move diagonally (sp?) LOL.

Yes you can. I can criticise Land Rover because they used to make their cars out of aluminium. But this meant they lasted for years and years, so they stopped doing that because then they get a higher turn over of sales. It's detrimental to the consumer, it's better business practise from their point of view and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the government in power at the time.

Originally Posted by Deascendent

And that the tide of liberal ideology caused by the last U.S. administration has to stop somewhere. I'm tired of kids these days that don't know a clue about how our economies work and how they got to this point today.. It has got to the point where most kids are thinking that the Daily Show and Colbert Report are serious news-worthy opinions!!! And this is coming from a person that voted for OBAMA!!!!!

But my biggest point is that in times of peace and prosperity, we will always find something to complain about, and sooner or later down the line we start to convince ourselves that those little flaws make the whole system worth throwing out.

I don't give a crap about the U.S administration, the Daily Show, Colbert Report or Obama. I don't live in the U.S and have no intention of doing so.

My point is that your entire anti-liberal rant or whatever the hell it was is completely mis-directed in the context of my post which was a reflection on the state of the business of making and publishing games, of which I have a decades experience. And at no point did I bring governments into it. You did that all on your own. It sounds like you read what you wanted to read rather than what was actually said, or generalised what was said within a specific context to a general statement. One or the other.

[Deascendent]

The latter half of my comments weren't necessarily directed at you, just curious to see if others would jump in and support the blind socialist/liberal ideas that have become a norm for perhaps even a ww2 game forum. If so... the free world is in trouble... that's all.

[Roboslob]

Originally Posted by Deascendent

It has got to the point where most kids are thinking that the Daily Show and Colbert Report are serious news-worthy opinions!!! And this is coming from a person that voted for OBAMA!!!!!

Wait, you mean they are not reliable sources to catch up on the important events of the day????????/ But surely people wow can all the bad news and make it funny are professionals right? I mean take stand up comics, bad ones arne't funny and good ones are hillarous, so shouldn't that mean bad news casters are not funny? And the good ones are?

No?

I've been wasting hours staying up until just after 1am to get unreliable news? NOOOOOOOOO!

In other news my spell checker thought by "NOOOOOOOOOO" I meant Notebook.

[stealth finger]

Originally Posted by Roboslob

In other news my spell checker thought by "NOOOOOOOOOO" I meant Notebook.

i can see that lol