Map Kiting in KB:AP or KB 2

[Zechnophobe]

So here's my thoughts. I realized that AP has a big flaw, the same that TL has: You almost always end up using the same units. Partially this is because only certain units are good, and partially because you always progress through the game in the same ethnic order.

We have two game balances that are currently at odds:

1) The fact that islands have different difficulty levels that effects the value of the 'pickups' and oftenly the troops.

2) The fact that you can 'kite' maps to get to the higher difficulty areas.

This means that getting to new islands is very beneficial to the player, due to the freebies of the area, as well as something that you can do via a specific, sorta cheesy strategy.

What I would *really* like to see a mod that shakes up this system in one of the following ways:

1) Removes the requirement for navigational charts entirely. This will be 'easy mode' because you can get free pickups from each island without having to kite. However, since this is already doable it isn't that easy.

2) RANDOMIZES the difficulty of each island, as well as the order of maps. What I'm suggesting is that instead of always going to scarlet wind, then Bola, then Rusty Anchor, then Verona... You would start on Debir, and the maps you would find there could go to any island, and that the order and difficulty would ramp up as normal. That is, if you go straight from Debir to Nameless island, then nameless island would be the same difficulty as scarlet wind.

Ideally this second option would also tone done the loot you would find there. An island covered in black dragon eggs is probably a bit broken. Quests would also have to have their xp tempered by island difficulty. So this is likely just a dream scenario. But wouldn't it be cool if you didn't always play through the game in the same order?

[Elwin]

to be honest its order only on beggining once you clear most of stacks on verona you cna choose whatever you want .. maybe not reha yet .. but montero dersu tekron umkas uzala elon .. there is much choice ..

[Urbz]

Very nice points Blueshrike, I fully agree and I could not have said it better.
At first I really liked the kiting but now I really dont anymore. Although I should've just started on normal to play through the game at least once.
For me personally the kiting does not make the game any better but hopefully I will change my mind at some point just like DG did because I doubt they will patch this if it hasnt ben changed in 6 months.
And indeed DG, it will be intresting to see what mods will be made for this game to keep it fun even longer.

[DGDobrev]

Well, All that I can say is - start a mage on impossible and try your hand at the game. Well see if you can get out of the starting few islands without map guards kiting. With a warrior, you can do it - I did it. With a paladin, you can do it as well. With a mage, you have twice as less leadership than the warrior, no double casts nor lots of rage whatsoever to use the dragon to push enemies back 2 steps all the time.

I can go so far as to say that a mage can't even get to rusty anchor without map kiting on impossible, unless you luck out with several + leadership items - and still it is doubtful whether you will be able to afford them at all.

[TemjinGold]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Well, All that I can say is - start a mage on impossible and try your hand at the game. Well see if you can get out of the starting few islands without map guards kiting. With a warrior, you can do it - I did it. With a paladin, you can do it as well. With a mage, you have twice as less leadership than the warrior, no double casts nor lots of rage whatsoever to use the dragon to push enemies back 2 steps all the time.

I can go so far as to say that a mage can't even get to rusty anchor without map kiting on impossible, unless you luck out with several + leadership items - and still it is doubtful whether you will be able to afford them at all.

Hey DG, you may have to eat your words there. My impossible mage has wiped Debir, Scarlett, and Bolo clean, has a couple of fights left on Rusty, and hasn't touched Verona much yet. No kiting, no losses, and not a single +leadership item so far (didn't pick up Glory either.) With good battle tactics and strategy, a mage doesn't really need all that much leadership to be effective. If you need proof of some sort, just tell me what to take a screenie of!

Edit: Just checked my gal again. I do have a Commander's Helmet for leadership. My bad.

[unicornxp]

without map kiting , warrior and paladin also can't get the map of Rusy-anchor without losses when he first reach Scarlett island , and if the guards have some ranged units like beholder, 0 loss is really impossible.

but it's easy to get the map in bolo, because there we can get cyclops(the best tank in the early game) and the guards are always all melee units or with less ranged ones.

[DGDobrev]

Originally Posted by TemjinGold

Hey DG, you may have to eat your words there. My impossible mage has wiped Debir, Scarlett, and Bolo clean, has a couple of fights left on Rusty, and hasn't touched Verona much yet. No kiting, no losses, and not a single +leadership item so far (didn't pick up Glory either.) With good battle tactics and strategy, a mage doesn't really need all that much leadership to be effective. If you need proof of some sort, just tell me what to take a screenie of!

Edit: Just checked my gal again. I do have a Commander's Helmet for leadership. My bad.

Well, that would make some difference. You should also be aware that each game is different. If you get a game where the map guardians are mostly ranged (or even worse, ranged with magic damage to make your cyclopses vulnerable), I'd like to see you doing it without losses. I had a few such games - in those even stone skin + target (provided you have those) doesn't help. If you have neither target, nor stone skin... Close combat enemies may overrun you.

Still, it is all about the game setup, so we can't make a generalization So... I'm not eating up my words just yet

[TemjinGold]

But but... you distinctly said it wasn't possible without SEVERAL +leadership items and kiting...

I should also mention the reason I forgot about the helm is because I'm not even bothering to fill up my leadership with units. I did the last 10 fights or so with 1 troll, which is less than 1/3 the leadership I have for 1 stack. In fact, the only fight I couldn't pass so far is the dragon with the several thousand flies in that cave.