Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[hiro]

The bunker is funny, and lifesized. But that's a good pic though. About the previous posts leading in . . .

Don't need to argue the point if he's a Italian Dictator lover or Fascist supporter. This is a Team D thread.





The points by zaelu and kwiatek are invalid because the IL-2 data used to prove their points that something is wrong comes from a hacked and modded IL-2 . . . hence Bulgarian's reply.

And where that information comes from does affect if its a "fact or not".

Garbage in and garbage out? You can't use flawed data to point out a flaw, because the problem could be with the data you're using .





Team D is right in saying FM's modded / will create unknown consequences / cascade effects in the code.

And its good to nip it in the bud.

The debates with Modded FM's are many: Is it a cheat vs historically vs flies like I want it to (according to my interpretation of the books I've read etc).

Then you got book knowledge vs actual experience. Anyone who has tried to learn martial arts from a magazine and then from an actual master can tell you its different from learning from a video, pages, and from someone teaching you.

Proving something "historically" correct, how would they (mod FM guys) know unless they've flown an actual P-51, and fired its .50 cals?

You could get close if you took what was recorded in regarding the plane, plus the experience of pilots / pilot logs, stats and engineering tests, and test flights if possible. Even then collecting all the data needs a peer review and organization to translate that into the game . . . and you have to seperate this from "your favorite plane" syndrome.

At least with Team D or Oleg n Co, they can request information regarding this, and its good they are doing this (recent threads from Luthier). They can get the research in on it.

They can combine resources, work with the community, and have a team to debate, and organize things so it works with what's been done already in the game and not mess with the integrity of IL-2. After all 8+ years of official work on a game, theres bound to be many details that only the developer is intimate with.


Another issue, is say, pilot skill.

I'll use the P-51. There are other people that fly the P-51 on unmodded servers online and shoot just fine, they rack up kills. They fly the IL-2 P-51 just as well as it can be according to its FM.

Then you have others that say they find it hard to fly or shoot w/out the modded FM? Are they cheating because of lack of skill?

Maybe the oleg quote pilots win dogfights is applicable here?


With Team D and Oleg n Co, the have the final say. They can cut through the BS, the many facets of the issue, and create something workable.


I'm just glad Team D and Oleg n co are continuing to support IL-2. And we should be working with them, not laying down accusations or quoting obscure sources (like unsourced wikipedia articles), or points or using modded FM's to prove a point.

[ramstein]

Originally Posted by hiro

.............. not laying down accusations or quoting obscure source, or points or using modded FM's to prove a point.

those obscure sources, you are crapping on, are from real pilots who flew the planes, the documents from the desgin, factory specs, etc.. but it seems you know more than those sources..

[hiro]

sorry for the misconfusion, I updated my post.

Originally Posted by ramstein

those obscure sources, you are crapping on, are from real pilots who flew the planes, the documents from the desgin, factory specs, etc.. but it seems you know more than those sources..

actually that part was directed at what K was trying to do that FC99 was answering to . . . post #610 11-11-2009, 09:57 AM


I did state in earlier in my post that pilots and documents are valid and I did not mean any disrespect in regards to pilots or any other service members statements.

You could get close if you took what was recorded in regarding the plane, plus the experience of pilots / pilot logs, stats and engineering tests, and test flights if possible. Even then collecting all the data needs a peer review and organization to translate that into the game . . . and you have to seperate this from "your favorite plane" syndrome.

close = historically correct, I'm stating close b/c exact is being there as the events unfold.

[ramstein]

ok, sorry, I am sensitive to some of what happened over the years.. I know there is more to worry about in life,, but there is lingering distrust in the community with some fm/dm..

which probably detors some of the people from working on the fm/dm... but since there are only a few select people who hold the golden keys and software to create planes and put in the fm/dm... the average joe has to try to get official documents and get real pilots to help get the correct fm/dm..

and if the people making it refuses to use/implement the data from the documents and does something wrong, it takes the power of a god to get the wrong righted..
that's where the frustration lays.. once the wrong becomes the gold standard it has been impossible to get it corrected..

so If I say something, it is triggered too easily.. I did not realize it was aimed at a speciific post or person.. sorry..

There is one thing I would like to say.. which has been bugging me..

If the P51 that was put into this game is really modelled correctly, then in real life it would not still be flown today in races,, with the IL-2 FM/DM, it would have been scrapped in 1942, and the Reno air races would be using BF109's and FW-190's. Which just goes to show it's all bass-ackwards...


And that was only one example..

[nearmiss]

YAKS are pretty awesome as well

http://www.teamsteadfast.com/

[4./JG53_Task]

A heck of a lot of posts here to sift through, so I don't know if this question has been asked yet.

Anyways, with the introduction of previously missing Italian planes such as SM.79, Re.2000, and G.55, we will also see other important ones?

For Bombers: Cant Z.1007 Alcione, Cant Z.1018 Leone, BR 20 (early and late versions)

For Fighters: Re.2000 series variants (2001, 2002), and one of my favorite Italian fighters, the Re.2005 Sagittario, considered the most advanced and finest of Italian air-craftsmanship (by far the sleekest and best-looking aircraft of WW2). To see it in this game would be a dream come true!

[Insuber]

Task, agreed! We want more Italian planes, and French too!

Ins

[Xilon_x]

FANTASTIC aiplane

REGGIANE series: this is original skin.





this is ENJINE of REGGIANE 2007

this is original REGGIANE tecnical DESINE
this is REGGIANE 2005R variant whit TURBOJET PROPULSOR.



THIS IS PROTOTIPE OF REGGIANE 2007 the SABRE is FAC-SIMLE to ITALIAN DESINE reggiane 2007
REGGIANE 2007:





THIS IS IMPORTANT REAL PHOTO OF COCKPIT REGGIANE 2005 loock this linkhttp://www.aldini.it/re2005/performances.htm

COCKPIT REGGIANE 2005

ORIGINAL PHOTO



reggiane catapult sistem to ship VITTORIO VENETO.
Reggiane was used both by aviation Italian and from Italian Italian navy's intentions were to use the fighters reggiane2001 on the italian CARRIER AQUILA

[Insuber]

Xilon this is a little bit pathetic and OT. Nice fantasy drawings and prototypes. Bah.

Ins

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by hiro

The points by zaelu and kwiatek are invalid because the IL-2 data used to prove their points that something is wrong comes from a hacked and modded IL-2 . . . hence Bulgarian's reply.

And where that information comes from does affect if its a "fact or not".

Garbage in and garbage out? You can't use flawed data to point out a flaw, because the problem could be with the data you're using .

You would indeed be very likely to get only garbage out if you got something wrong. Anyone who knows what java code looks like could tell if the code was decrypted incorrectly. Have yourself a read all about encryption.
In any case, the best way to check would be for someone to dump all of the class files, unhash them all and then hash them all again without modification. I bet they'd pass CRT=2.
Taking the above into account, I think it's pretty unreasonable to believe that Kwiatek would point out the error if it wasn't in the original game's FM straight from being unhashed, or for that matter that he wouldn't have checked it several times before bringing it to the attention of TD.
I confess that I find myself surprised by the attitude with which Kwiatek's post was received, surely it wasn't necessary to cause such a fuss over the fact that his information comes from modding the game's files himself? Some TD members were previously modders themselves. Seems mighty hypocritical.