Question Regarding Grumman Lawsuit

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Two aircraft come to mind.

The Douglas A20 Havoc (Boston) and the Bristol Blenheim. Both were private venture developments that were not done to specific government contract requirements, but were purchased by their respective governments because their demonstrated performance was so good.

The P51 also sort of fits this description, because has you may recall, it was not built to a government specification. It was a private venture design offered to the RAF in lieu of the P40, that the RAF was actually looking to purchase.

I believe both Douglas and North American are now part of Boeing.

Douglas merged with McDonnell to become McDonnell Douglas, which was later bought by Boeing. North American Aviation merged with Rockwell-Standard to become North American Rockwell, which renamed itself to Rockwell International. Rockwell later sold its defense and space divisions to Boeing.

Does Boeing tend to be this way about its older aircraft?

Interestingly enough, it looks like Northrop Grumman may not actually own the remains of Republic Aviation or Vought. Republic was bought by Fairchild, which seems to be owned by M7 Aerospace. Vought was originally partially owned by Northrop Grumman, but NG's share in it was bought out by the Carlyle Group in 2000.

Harry Voyager

[hiro]

Thanks for the clarification behind all this.

Wow that sucks Ubi threw Oleg under the bus. Part of being a publisher means they take responsibilities for (issues like legal stuff).

I can understand getting paid for something, but there has to be reason.

a) let microsoft make grumman stuff for free. But russian flight sim seems to be a better product and oh its selling like hotcakes, lets charge them b/c they can't get high powered lawyers like microsoft can.

b) for years model companies and previous game developers have been using stuff for free and now you're going to charge for something that's US govt and paid for by tax payers to line individual company pockets?

c) instead of paying teams of lawyers, it'd be better spent on R&D and bettering your company than nit picking legal stuff and losing focus on what the companies set out to do originally.

look at what greed has done to the US car companies for nickle and diming for their likeness of cars in models (now asking govt handouts b/c they develop crap, and the Japanese are kicking their bums in the marketplace because 50 years ago they didn't listen to Edward Deming).

or RIAA and MPAA trying to sue peer to peer networks / the internet and asking taxpayers to pay for damages via software piracy because they were too slow to jump on the internet marketing and mp3 boom. They've lost credibility by suing grandmas and mac users (no p2p for mac at the time), lost profits, and instead of making good music and paying musicians well, the only guys making money are the lawyers. One can attest to this by listening to radio and seeing how much junk songs are being played.

Ok its exaggerated and over simplified but its like the lady suing Mickey D's / Macdonalds for purchasing a hot hot cup of coffee, placing it in her lap THEN driving all over the place and spilling it so it scalded her pretty good for the fast food not putting warning labels on the cups. But jeez take some responsibility instead of working the system for a fast buck.


If this junk is kept up, trying to copyright 'history' it will simply force flight sim companies to do what sports games have doing for ages.


I remember NBA games . . . Instead of using Michael Jordan, and paying millions in royalties to him, Nike . . . they had a player Mitchell Gordan with no. 23 jersey, that looks like MJ, plays like him, and shoots / dunks like him.


Grumman TBF Avenger you will get Drumman FBT Revenger . . .

It'd be funny if they had to resort to leet speak to get around copyrighting.

Or briefings in BOB SOW. Today 7he Bth A* (The 8th AF is copyrighted) is targeting Br*men (Bremen is trademarked). Be prepared as the L*ftwaff3 ^f-1O9's will stop at nothing to . . ."


Skins will be called Er1ch Hartm*nn.bmp and Bvd 4nderson.bmp , because the names already taken (by lawyers).

[GF_Mastiff]

I'm confused isn't USA military declassified contracts considered public domain?

Hence the US public tax payer owns the property and we can use it in any capacity?

We paid for it I'm going to use it.

[ElAurens]

This has been thrashed out many times since the launch of Pacific Fighters. As of now the law is on the side of the manufacturers.

Nothing we can do about it.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think there is more to be gained by cooperating with veterans' associations than by trying to go around it with lawyers.

To illustrate the difference, just imagine what it would look like in the news:

"PC flight simulator developers and hobbyists take legal action against the defense industry, in an effort to abolish royalty fees involved in the portrayal of historical military hardware in PC software: (insert row upon row of legal jargon)"

as opposed to

"The privatization of history and personal struggle, or how our veterans' blood and sweat became the lawyers' bread and butter:
Dozens of veteran associations across the US and other countries have taken objection to the practice of certain military industry firms to demand royalty and copyright fees for the portrayal of machines of war that they fought in. And while these machines were in fact built by these companies, it's these men, most of them in their late 80s or more, who fought, bled and died in these machines during WWII. One of the most well-known surviving US ace pilots of the time and spokesman for one of the veteran associations, Mr. XYZ, issued the following statement when asked to comment on the issue:
It's almost 70 years ago that we took to the skies in an effort to defend basic human freedoms and rights. Countless people on all sides lost their lives in that struggle and they deserve to be remembered. Just like books and movies, PC gaming software that focuses on WWII and the historically accurate portrayal of this struggle serves to keep the memory alive and the public aware of the great deeds of sacrifice that happened so long ago, yet their repercussions are still far-reaching.
It's a complete disgrace, an awful disservice to and even an obscene slap on the face of the individuals who fought and made the ultimate sacrifice, that the continuation of historical memory and the telling of their heroic deeds are subject to the hurdles and hubris of petty profiteering by companies that already make a killing in their original field of work.
It's also tragically ironic, to say the least, that a company whose designs saved so many of our lives thanks to their robust construction back in the day, is nowadays looking to rob us of the recognition we deserve, by preventing our youth from re-enacting our deeds and putting themselves in our shoes for a little while with the aid of PC simulation software. "

Which one do you think is prone to stir up the most trouble? See, if you want to go against the establishment you're better off fighting it with its own means, sensational journalism being one of them

[Viking]

The way the American economy is going and seeing how the Chinese are spending their Greenbacks’ I say it’s only a matter of months before we can go to Peking and ask for permission to use the name and images of Grumman et consortia’s!


Viking

[ECV56_Lancelot]

I only hope this Grumman thing does not private us from having the F9F Pantherjet or any other important aircraft of the Korean conflict that should be present on SoW Korea!!

[_RAAF_Smouch]

Originally Posted by ECV56_Lancelot

I only hope this Grumman thing does not private us from having the F9F Pantherjet or any other important aircraft of the Korean conflict that should be present on SoW Korea!!

Well if its a Nothrop Grumman A/C then prevention will happen unless Oleg can somehow get NG to come to the party.

What a bunch of 'pillicks' really!!!

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Viking

The way the American economy is going and seeing how the Chinese are spending their Greenbacks’ I say it’s only a matter of months before we can go to Peking and ask for permission to use the name and images of Grumman et consortia’s!


Viking

LOL, ain't that the truth!

[WTE_Galway]

Note that we didn't just lose aircraft, at least one almost completed ship (escort carrier ? cannot recall now) was pulled from the game as well.

Nothing much to add here other than this ..

The story going around at the time was it never went to court. Grumman threatened to take out some sort of injunction preventing the release of Pacific Fighters until the matter was dealt with by the US courts, possibly several years later. As Pacific Fighters was just hitting the markets and all the publicity already paid for by UBI made an out of court settlement and billed Oleg for the costs.

A final note --- the rights to this stuff will never go public domain. The American courts have recently set a precedent with a Disney case whereby IP holders can apply to have their copyright extended virtually forever.