Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

[Houndstone Hawk]

To Phlux:

Unlike the other guy in the thread, you actually had bothered to atleast read the post & so you have my respect, along with my apologies if i appeared 'eletist' or over intillegent to a 'dumb down console crowd'. I meant to appear as neither & on the contrary, I have huge respect for the console owners like myself that will undoubtedly be "disappointed" once again.

We have great machines, very powerful, keyboard ready & flightstick compatible units with tons of memory & acres of HDD space; it's not far removed from a pc yet the games (not the players) are dumbed down at sometimes nearly twice the cost. True; I expected IL-2 because I bothered to read everything about this game from its conception.

As for my job, I was merely responding to a sarcastic comment made by Mr Big himself.

[phlux]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

To Phlux:

Unlike the other guy in the thread, you actually had bothered to atleast read the post & so you have my respect, along with my apologies if i appeared 'eletist' or over intillegent to a 'dumb down console crowd'. I meant to appear as neither & on the contrary, I have huge respect for the console owners like myself that will undoubtedly be "disappointed" once again.

We have great machines, very powerful, keyboard ready & flightstick compatible units with tons of memory & acres of HDD space; it's not far removed from a pc yet the games (not the players) are dumbed down at sometimes nearly twice the cost. True; I expected IL-2 because I bothered to read everything about this game from its conception.

As for my job, I was merely responding to a sarcastic comment made by Mr Big himself.

Fair enough.

However sir, I must say that since the game has been out (in some places) for a month now, anyone left posting on this forum would obviously be enjoying it despite it's few shortcomings. I'm certain you knew the reaction you'd get, and the first few sentences of your opening post confirm it. I'm just curious as to your motivation for starting this discussion.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by phlux

Fair enough.

However sir, I must say that since the game has been out (in some places) for a month now, anyone left posting on this forum would obviously be enjoying it despite it's few shortcomings. I'm certain you knew the reaction you'd get, and the first few sentences of your opening post confirm it. I'm just curious as to your motivation for starting this discussion.

Did I not make that clear? Garbage DLC over fixes & the off-topic release of OFP: Dragon Rising, which will disappoint thousands more console owners that deserve to enjoy what their PC brethren receive.

Respect for the great sig btw!!!!

[PantherAttack2]

As far as the DLC is concerned, it's sort of silly to have people flying pre-order content planes and have nobody else be able to fly them at all. Now, yes they did make more single missions, but other than that the content was already there. Fixes are on the way anyways.

[phlux]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Did I not make that clear? Garbage DLC over fixes & the off-topic release of OFP: Dragon Rising, which will disappoint thousands more console owners that deserve to enjoy what their PC brethren receive.

Respect for the great sig btw!!!!

Your opinion is crystal clear; your reasoning for posting it on a forum full of people who are enjoying what they bought is what's rather confusing to me. I have a hard time believing that your intentions were to champion the cause of the beleaguered console gamer, but nonetheless enjoy the remainder of the responses you get.

I can't take credit for the signature (read the fine print), but thank you anyway.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by phlux

Your opinion is crystal clear; your reasoning for posting it on a forum full of people who are enjoying what they bought is what's rather confusing to me. I have a hard time believing that your intentions were to champion the cause of the beleaguered console gamer, but nonetheless enjoy the remainder of the responses you get.

I can't take credit for the signature (read the fine print), but thank you anyway.

Hmm. A very suspicious & cynical mind you appear to have Mr Phlux as I wish neither to be a champion to anyone or to wallow in satisfaction at stirring up a hornets nest. I am merely a punter that's sick to death of being penalized for having a console. Admittedly, I am a lover of combat sims & yes; Falcon 4.0 was a little gem & then some. Ppl are no doubt getting enjoyment from this stuff & hey that's good. I was prepared to stay in the sunset on this but the fact I have pre-ordered another dud on PS3 (OFPR) & having read this Anton guys' reasoning for the chargeable DLC (it was already part of the title), I felt like expressing my opinion & asking others if they felt as I did.
I strangely feel as I'm having to justify my actions to you, in a forum of open debate & healthy discussion.
Pointless either way. You will go on & enjoy this game for what it is, good for you; I will not, I'm the loser I guess for buying it (twice) in the 1st place.

Yes I read the small print but still thought it worthy of praise.

[Axe99]

Hey Houndstone, you raise two issues:

1) content in original game

The important thing to keep in mind here is that the devs want to take this game beyond the PC crowd that have migrated to console, but still keep the simmers happy (which I'm _very_ happy about )). If they go in too hardcore in their first outing, it's likely to come up in reviews, which will turn off buyers. If this is successful (and the signs are looking pretty good so far), then it's laying the groundwork for sim-style flyers on console - but the groundwork has to be laid down first. Driving games didn't start with GT5 and the driving force pro, they started with very basic wheels and much simpler handling models. Similarly, console flight games will need to do the same, or it'll be too much for flyers who haven't got a PC background. I personaly think they've done
a masterful job of balancing the arcade and the sim crowd, and hope that IL-2 as a console franchise goes from strength to strength, encouraging other more simmy games on our black/grey boxes .

2) value for DLC.


The content in the original game was _brilliant_ value - 70+ missions, often quite involved, 30+ planes (they don't get the full 40 from me, as some are plain impractical to unlock)), multiplayer and painted pictures of all the pilots ). So it's not as if anyone was ripped off here. If you don't like it, buy any other console flight game in the last decade and you'll see that you're not getting a rough run. The DLC itself is a further two planes and six missions, all with the new plane (really looking forward to getting my teeth into the P-47 - on PS3, so haven't seen these yet) - the asking price for this is also very reasonable. Both took work, and I think it's only fair the devs get paid for the work they do . It's not as if we're spending $5 for anime skins for our planes .

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by Axe99

Hey Houndstone, you raise two issues:

1) content in original game

The important thing to keep in mind here is that the devs want to take this game beyond the PC crowd that have migrated to console, but still keep the simmers happy (which I'm _very_ happy about )). If they go in too hardcore in their first outing, it's likely to come up in reviews, which will turn off buyers. If this is successful (and the signs are looking pretty good so far), then it's laying the groundwork for sim-style flyers on console - but the groundwork has to be laid down first. Driving games didn't start with GT5 and the driving force pro, they started with very basic wheels and much simpler handling models. Similarly, console flight games will need to do the same, or it'll be too much for flyers who haven't got a PC background. I personaly think they've done
a masterful job of balancing the arcade and the sim crowd, and hope that IL-2 as a console franchise goes from strength to strength, encouraging other more simmy games on our black/grey boxes .

2) value for DLC.


The content in the original game was _brilliant_ value - 70+ missions, often quite involved, 30+ planes (they don't get the full 40 from me, as some are plain impractical to unlock)), multiplayer and painted pictures of all the pilots ). So it's not as if anyone was ripped off here. If you don't like it, buy any other console flight game in the last decade and you'll see that you're not getting a rough run. The DLC itself is a further two planes and six missions, all with the new plane (really looking forward to getting my teeth into the P-47 - on PS3, so haven't seen these yet) - the asking price for this is also very reasonable. Both took work, and I think it's only fair the devs get paid for the work they do . It's not as if we're spending $5 for anime skins for our planes .

Couldn't agree less I'm afraid with both points. A mere sprinkling of cockpits, a sim mode that is broken in my opinion beyond repair, awful control issues that are screaming "fix me", no replayabilty what so ever, no customization thru any gameplay mode, how is this to attract anyone with the love of a good combat simulation; & that my friend is where it's roots lie; IL-2 Sturmovik was, & is, the grandaddy of that genre.
So to bring such a class act to a console, the game has to be stripped of interest, glossed in pretty paint & sold at double the price?

The DLC supplied, at any price, is a cheek & a blatant disregard to fans of the game, wanting immersion & fixes. So the P-47 finally shows up with its own cockpit; no wait hang on, isn't that a P-51 cockpit? no ofcourse not. What does the other planes' 'office' look like? Is the map new? Is it another part of Bastogne that we haven't seen? IT WAS ALL PART OF THE ORIGINAL GAME!!!!
OK; lessons learned from Over G Fighters. That game did nothing wrong, had great control mapping, had fantastic model physics & flight characteristics, was hellishly immersive, had everything BoP lacks, but no one dug it & so it died. BoP has looks & very little else but lives & how much money do we have to shell out each time before everyone is satisfied when the original back in 2001 did it bang on 1st time.
Oleg wanted nothing to do with this title & I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Two copies, 2 control sticks & many hours down the line I can see why .... IMO!!!