[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by robtek

Those 130 accidents also don't include those losses, where after a few insignificant machine gun hits, or even only tracers around the cockpit, the pilot overreacted and went in with his ride because of over-g or a spin, which shurely has happened a few times.

It shurely then was accounted under losses because of enemy action.

There were quite a lot Spitfires lost during the BoB and not all had been shot to pieces.

How many other aircraft types spun in because of pilots over-reacting and getting into trouble? We not yet seen any documented evidence that the Spitfire was more prone to this than other aircraft types, nor has there been any evidence posted of (say) Luftwaffe pilots/aircrew witnessing Spitfires losing their wings during combat. Without such evidence speculation about how many Spitfires might have crashed is just that - unsubstantiated speculation.

Originally Posted by robtek

And glider, nobody has said anything about the Spitfire being weak!!!

Only that the Spitfire controls made it relatively easy to reach the structural limits.

Which is why we have undocumented stories, found on a single website, about stacks of buckled Spitfire wings. Read Henshaw's comments about the Spitfire's limits. Although Crumpp assumes that engineers were the most reliable people to assess the theoretical flight qualities of aircraft, pilots in the frontline and involved in the actual development of the aircraft have a far better idea of the real capabilities of the machine.

Originally Posted by DC338

The essential problem and the neglected for most of this thread is how do you simulate it?

I think all sides would agree that the Spitfire had sensitive elevator controls. The degree of problem to the pilot is the issue. Yet with a simulator you have other issues that help or hinder the issue.

1.The problem is how do you simulate that in a game where control curves can be altered?

2.How do you simulate it in a game where you don't have the same control type as the real aircraft, with the same type and length of stick.

3.How do you simulate the different trim types. Some had stab trim which suits a return to center type arrangement such as the joysticks we all use. The majority however had trim tabs that change the stick position. how do you accountant for that in the sim? The shifting of the control curve as mentioned above.

4. How do you simulate the tactit feedback that a pilot gets in relation to G and buffet.

5. Who decides how strong the pilot is. This will become the issue when taking about aircraft with "heavy" controls. Heavy to whom.

This thread of 60 odd pages is like a merry go round.

To discuss the issue without addressing how you would simulate and the issues surrounding doing that, is a waste of %%(#ing time and energy.

You are arguing about degrees yet essentially want the same thing, accuracy. "forest for the trees" comes to mind. This is such a small issue in a sim that has much bigger problems, like aircraft not performing to spec.

+1