Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBlaster
I have to chuckle at this because I know you have made the CEM realism point many times as the basis for your enjoyment of CLoD and I think to try and win people over?  Testing the mags, pumping the fuel pump...for me it's a novelty. Something I can easily macro control away. Then the CLoD 109 becomes pretty simple. I mainly fly online. So I want to get in the game, not spend my time doing this imaginary stuff. Also, I have to disagree about your simplified take on 1946 modeling. Overheating is modeled. If WEP is on, it gets hotter faster and you lose power until eventually your engine blows. If you enter a dogfight hot engine, you are going to take a performance hit. And different WEPs (e.g., mw50) are modeled differently. The rads affect speed, but they also affect drag. And there are also times when you want to use manual over auto prop pitch for better acceleration. I guess what I am saying is that the workload potential is there in 1946 and if pilots choose to ignore it, they do get penalized. It's not as "simple" a model as it appears. It's probably true that many have been able to make kills by getting away with bad practice, and in this sense, I would agree that CLoD as the potential to be the better test of piloting skill. But I think it will be a long while for me. The DT and Mod patches have added a lot to this game and the flight model is realistic enough to prevent me from spending $1000 to enjoy CLoD's added realism. |
Nah, i actually have to chuckle at the thought of me trying to win anyone over as i'm a "do as you like as long as you don't axiomatically expect me to like the same thing" kind of guy.
I would just appreciate it if people who are disinterested in CoD simply follow their own advice and stop paying so much attention to it. This would let the rest of us focus on bug reporting, community made content, documentation and so on, you know, things that will probably benefit everyone in the long run
On a serious note, the CEM and systems workload in IL2 is dead simple for this day and age, so much that it does qualify as a co-pilot with magical powers. CoD is not perfect either (i actually expected more) but it's much better and at the very least it has the basic foundation set right, which is completely missing from IL2: the way you work with what your aircraft gives you can cost you your virtual life without a single shot being fired at you.
If you want to know what it really means to
operate (not fly, operate) a WWII warbird or something from a similar time frame try the A2A add-ons for FSX (P-47, Spitfire, Boeing Stratocruiser), the aerosoft PBY Catalina is also a good one in terms of CEM. Then try to think how it must have been like having to do all that in the midst of combat. Further on, if that is too much of a hassle for your taste, just fly on a server with disabled CEM.
Ironically enough, i don't even have my own copy of FSX (i just fly it when visiting a friend of mine who's got a bunch 3rd party add-ons ) and it was that which put the first nail in the IL2 coffin for me. Suddenly i was all "damn, is it really so complicated to fly an airplane? bah, these are modern ones with avionics and what not", because like every other propeller-head combat simmer i was under the impression that's it's all mostly throttle, stick and rudder (which it is for the most part, but in reality you have to actually turn things on and make sure they remain on).
Then i tried the 1940-1950 designs and they were even more of a handful. It was such a revelation i actually had my buddy give me a crash course on it. Then we spent 3 consecutive evenings taking turns on the controls, saving mid-flight and continuing the next day, while flying a 10 hour flight in a Catalina (Bahamas to St.Marten) with real-time weather downloaded off the internet. To this day, it's among the best flying hours i've probably ever logged in a flight sim. Why? Because that rickety old plane needed so much care to stay afloat and complete that run, it actually felt
alive. Not to mention the feeling of satisfaction when we finally managed to get all things running in their sweet spot range and have it cruise effortlessly (though sedately at a mere 100-110 knots indicated, there are cars that go faster than that
) while we finally had time to focus on properly following the flight-plan, tuning the radio navigation beacons and staying on course.
It was not only a "have my hands full" situation (in reality Catalinas are not meant to be flown by a single pilot, even today), it was more nerve wracking than certain instances of flying combat in other sims. And i got hooked to that and wanted to see it in a WWII-era combat sim, IL2 couldn't give it to me and i started flying less and less of it.
Obviously, you shouldn't have to suffer for my choice of gameplay and you have tools to avoid that in the realism/difficulty options panel.
I shouldn't have to take what for me is a giant step back to 2000 either, but if a sim doesn't even model all that plane-particular stuff i like so much, then i have no switch to choose if i will set them on or off, or a server with appropriate settings to fly on.
If it completely lacks what i consider a huge part of the actual workings of getting an aircraft in the air and keeping it there, along with how this lack of workload combined with the small maps imbalances the historical tactical considerations and results in unrealistic engagements and player behaviour despite the realistic FMs, then i just have no choice in the matter.
And that's why i can't go back to IL2, because there's a new sim that gives me that choice.
I hope this provides a satisfactory answer to how i can ignore IL2 and the new mod packs and patches. I'm not mod-averse either, far from it, in fact i was eagerly expecting a new UP release and the TD patches, mainly because i loved flying mosquitoes and WWII nightfighters was one of my all-time top of the wish-list item for flight sims. I would have flown it like mad but then CoD happened, shuffled the cards and ruined IL2 for me pretty much.
In other words, what you describe as imaginary things, plus many more on top of them, is a very real part of aircraft operation that you are just not interested in, so you are content to fly a sim that doesn't model them in much detail, if at all.
However, other people will place increased importance on them and will gravitate to a sim that does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBlaster
Guys, we aren't morons. I have CLoD. Cdr has CLoD. I think Stubing probably has the game. We all play at WoP Spit/109 for long time. I spent a bunch of time mapping out my controls for CLoD, writing macros for it and I tweaked my settings on my low end system enough to where I could dogfight with 109 just fine. I expected to be buying a new computer when CLoD came out. But the problem is all these "bugs" or just bad design/implementation totally unrelated to CEM/DM. So much so that it overshadows greatly the new CEM and DM models imho.
The question is do you want to spend the next year beta testing CLoD or do you want to spend your time playing upcoming UP 3.0? If you don't have the hardware, why invest in top end hardware for a beta CLoD game and then have that hardware obsolete by the time CLoD is polished a year from now? If you do have the hardware now, why waste your time on a beta game that may or may not ever be completed? At least we have reasonable assurance that UP 3.0 will rock. Vanilla, DT patches and community mods all rolled into one. You get the sounds, the maps...everything. Why not play that for now? We paid money for CLoD to be a complete game. They need to fix it. But it's been like 6 years and Oleg is gone. We're just being realistic I think. Hope to see you at spit/109 when they get 3.0 running.  |
Personally, i like tinkering with the new stuff. I'm sorry but, beta or no beta, flying IL2 after CoD feels just like it felt when i used to fly European Air War after IL2 back in the day: more planes, bigger battles, smoother frame rates, bigger map, yet something was tangibly missing from EAW and i had to fire up IL2 (the very first one back in 2001) and fly for a couple of hours in its non-dynamic, completely scripted campaign to get my flight sim fix.
Despite the lack of content IL2 had something that i couldn't yet pinpoint, which was much much better than EAW.
The same thing happens to me today between CoD and IL2:1946. I don't actually fly CoD that much in the proper sense of the word, i'm mostly testing, but what i see makes IL2 feels very "artificial" to me for lack of a better word, just like EAW felt artificial compared to IL2 back in 2001.