Re-posted from
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articl...er/stigler.htm
This is a sitdown interview with German Ace Franz Stigler, who is perhaps most famous for escorting a wounded B-17 back to safety.
Interview and narrative © Michael Fuller 2003 exclusively for The 109 Lair.
Is that your plane, the big picture?
That was my plane in Afrika…
You know…I really don’t know how to start…I really appreciate you sitting down with me and spending this time. Do you mind if I just start asking you a few questions?
Yeah, go ahead…
You began your career with Jagdgeschwader 27…how did you get involved with them and the Luftwaffe…Had you always wanted to be a pilot?
Well, I was a pilot before, uh…the Air Force...also. At the time…we, uh…became pilots…we had nothing to do, uh…with the Air Force, so we were attached to the Lufthansa, and uh…so we were also…I mean, I was out, uh… of my own training…uh…as a pilot…as a…as a private person, and, uh…then I went to, uh…to train in seaplanes… I had an unlimited seaplane license.
Wow…did you always want to fly as a boy?
Well…I wanted…My father was a pilot in the first world war, my grade 5 teacher was a…a fighter pilot in the first world war…my brother and I…we… joined the flying club with glider planes, you know… when I was 12 years old, my brother was…16 at the time. I think my first glider flight…was a little… between 12 ½ and 13 years.
So you were fairly experienced then?
Oh, yeah…
When did you report to JG27?
I didn’t report…I was reported…and so…in…1942.
Now, the first plane you flew in the Luftwaffe was the 109?
Yeah…
Which was the first Model was it?
F
How did you like it?
I liked it a more than any other one…this is an F model.
(Franz points back to the massive painting behind me)
Cool…it has the tropical filter as well.
Yeah…and where is a G…(Franz looks around date the multitude of painting and photographs)… that is a G model here…(Franz points to another smaller painting, again featuring a G-6 in his original colours)…that’s the last 109 I was flying.
The last one you flew was a G?
Yeah…actually it was a K model, but uh…we used it as a G model, you know…and then I was a…a pilot for the 262 also.
How did you like it? I mean you had so many years as a pilot, and you basically went from a prop driven plane over to a jet. Did your experience flying help with the 262, or did you have to learn over again, being something totally new?
No, no…my flying experience as I said…was with all kinds of - I don’t know how many different types I flew, maybe a hundred...and uh, so…it was something that we flew…same with the flying boat, you know. I flew all kinds of flying boats, you know...up to 4 motors… at the time
From what I understand, the 262 was very dangerous? The engines had a tendency to overheat…
Oh yeah…
…Did you feel safe in it flying?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, very safe you know…our engines were very good, you know… which in the end it helps. No…I… once had an officer in Germany, but uh…
(Franz stopped himself…it sounded like it was quite personal, so I didn’t pry…)
What was you first impression when you first flew the 262?
Well, we…uh…we had only single seaters, you know…there…and then at the first factory where I had learned to fly it, we were 14…the first 14 men, I was one of them. They, uh…stud on the…stood on the wing, you know, we were sitting in the cockpit, and they showed us everything…and so, then they said to us, “this is your speed for take off, and then, uh…that’s your landing speed… now take off!”… you know…
Really! (I start laughing).
…And that’s how we learned to fly it.
Wow…The cockpit in the 262 was much bigger than the 109 wasn’t it?
Yes, big…and comfortable…it was a comfortable airplane and a safe airplane, let’s put it this way, you know. My Number 3 got…2 days before the war was over…a friend of mine… had not a chance to fly the airplane yet, he had so many flights, only he had not very many with it and so I said, “okay, fly it”, you know…he killed himself…on takeoff. (Through research I found out that it was Leutnant Pirchhan. After persuading Stigler to allow him to fly the plane, soon after take-off Pirchhan crashed at Oberweissenfeld, north of the airfield, totally destroying the aircraft and was fatally wounded. He died a few hours later being comforted in Stigler’s arms in a farmer’s field)
On the 109 and the 262, the Revi sights were always mounted slightly to the right…
Yes, uh…on the panel…in front sometimes…but usually they were in the middle.
Why did they sometimes have them to the right?
Uh, usually we were…uh, right handed, you know…and so…on the 109 they were not so to the right…on the 109 they were right in front of you.
Your favourite was the F model, yet the one that was produced the most was the G6…
Yeah…
…But most pilots preferred, like yourself, the F models and the earlier G’s, like the G-2. What was the reason behind that?
The G6 basically had a heavier motor and could fly higher…not more speed, but that’s it…it starts getting heavier every time they put something new in.
Did you ever have the GM-1 boost or MW-50 in any of your planes?
Oh yeah, we used it quite often…in combat you know.
How long did it last?
Uhh…you were not allowed to have it at more than 5 min., you know…if you used it 10 minutes, then motor has to come out.
It makes the engine worse?
It wrecks the motor.
And this was for the higher altitude?
Higher…yes…
And at what speed could you get up to?
Oh boy…I don’t remember…450 or 500 km…
Like you said, you could only use it for 5 min. otherwise you would burn out the engine. How many 5 min. intervals could you use? Did you have to shut it down for a period of time to let the engine cool?
That’s okay…that uh…it didn’t matter. You…but you never used it for five minutes…a minute, minute and a half and that’s it.
The armament, you used on the Messerschmitt…you used the Mk108 cannon…
Yeah we had it in the middle…we had two centimetre…or later a three centimetre Cannon…and then a thirty millimetre on top…two of them.
Was there a fairly big muzzle flash from the cannon?
Oh yeah…oh yeah…(Franz pints to a picture of his Me262). Up there we had four, three centimetre cannons…I shot a wing off a B-17 once...
Did the aircraft move quite a bit when you fired the weapon?
No, no, not at all.
Really? I assumed that because of the large calibre cannon, the plane would move quite a bit.
No, no…only very small…but that’s all.
What about the gun pods…a lot of pilots had the option of these…they found that -
Oh, I never… I hated them!! I never had them on my airplane. As soon as I got a new airplane… I say, “That’s a damn part, off with them!”...Made it sluggish, you know.
Yeah, I heard a lot of pilots hated them…so, if most pilots didn’t like them, as it made the airplane sluggish, poor manoeuvrability, why do you suppose they kept trying to incorporate them?
Just more firepower...
Now, in the F model, you had the automatic Prop Pitch control… I know the early Emils it was all manual. Did you ever switch to manual settings?
You could…have uh, have it not automatic, but uh…as soon as we were off the ground we would put in automatic.
So it just handles the engine better?
Because uh...in the air… you might overrev it, and the motor will start to burn
Okay…so you would only switch it to manual for take off and landing?
Yeah…
I know on your left side you had the throttle and adjustments for prop and the mixture lever.
Yeah…
Where did you adjust the prop?
Oh, you can FORGET about the mixture control!! It’s not like in a…in a…like in an American airplane or British airplane they had their mixture control. Forget about it, we never had to...it was automatic. Like once throttle had a button on…for prop control…and uh…you could shift it like a gear thing and it would make the motor...you just push it and could adjust it and make it more…
And that was on the throttle?
Yes, there was a button and you could switch it. There was a clock there… in the air…on the control panel… that showed you how your prop…and uh, how it works and was condition.
I’ve actually seen pictures of Galland, and it looked like he mounted a telescopic gun sight to the Revi…like a rifle scope. Have you ever seen that?
(Franz laughs) No, never…
Now the view from the Me109…backward was really difficult. Did you keep yourself completely strapped it when you were flying?
Oh yeah..
And how did you compensate for the lack of being able to see behind.
Well you could turn your head hundred-eighty degrees around. We didn’t have any mirrors in like the Spitfire…what you did was when you strapped yourself in, you had your shoulder straps loose…and uh…and not so tight…so you could move…you could put it in autopilot too… you know…
You flew the Me110 as well correct?
Yeah…(Franz makes a “disgusted” face)
Did you ever fly the Focke Wulf 190?
Oh yeah, I flew it for a few hours, but not in combat.
Did you like it?
I liked it very much…but we were all so used to the 109. But uh, Focke Wulf 190 D model, was far better than we had…and the 152 was even so better.
Yeah...the 152 was the final one…How was the view…the canopy was a lot bigger…
Oh yeah,
…Than that of the 109…did you find the view a lot easier?
Oh yeah, it was…but…the landing gear you had to be careful, because we had a narrow landing gear, the FW had uh…a wider one.
So being on the western front, you obvious flew against the Mustang, Spitfire-
P-7 – uh, P-47, Spitfire, Hurricane…the P-38...and no more…some of them I flew, also…the captured ones.
What did you think of the American and the British planes?
Well it, uh…the P-47 and the… P-51 was a…a good airplanes, you know…and depends also who was sitting in it…it’s always this. Did you ever see the Spitfire out in the Vancouver Airport?
No, I haven’t.
It uh…was the Spitfire Fourteen…(Franz leans over and grabs a journal from his desk and pulls out a business card). If you like, you can write the phone number down…Just phone him and he, uh…let you look at it, yo u know... (Franz opens a book containing a wealth of business cards, all aircraft related)
I didn’t know they had one there actually...
Penta…
I look at the business card. “Penta Aviation”.
His name is uh…Bob Jens…he’s just now rebuilding a...a Mosquito…But he has the money… so. Owns two…owns two hangers out there at Vancouver airport…but costs a lot of money…really a lot
So when you were flying, how easy was it to spot an aircraft? Could you recognize it at 500, 1000 meters?
It depends, uh…I could, I had pretty good eyes…and I could see pretty far. Of course that’s what you needed, especially in Afrika, where you could see the enemy before he saw you.
What were the conditions like in Afrika…the weather…did it affect you at all as a pilot?
No, I was uh…I was used to it; I was two years there. We had people who they had to send them to Russia because they couldn’t stand the heat and sun…both sides was the same.
The Trop F model had these odd attachment points for a “Sun Umbrella”. Did you actually use those things?
(Franz laughs) Umbrella? No, no. See, we had also a rifle in there…inside...in the airplane...two shotguns and one rifle. Three barrels, you know…in a box. The only thing was we never used it. But uh, as soon as one airplane belly-landed, the rifles disappeared!
(I laughed) I can imagine…someone taking it for their collection! If you were flying against a Mustang or a spitfire, was it easy to lose sight of them?
That depends, you know…I mean I had a lot of experience…I flew a lot of different airplanes… and I flew the Spitfire XII, V, and IX. I flew. In Afrika the Five, and in Germany the Nine. And this one out there at Vancouver Airport is a Fourteen, the last model…2000 hp, 5 bladed prop.
Yeah, I’ve never seen the 5 bladed one…the 3 and a 4 bladed one for sure...
The last ones. Big Griffon engines. With the engine of 2000hp, they couldn’t build a prop so big, so they made 5 blades.
What plane of the American or British did you fear the most, or show the biggest challenge for you?
…The P-51.
It was one of the fastest.
Yeah… It was one of the fastest and most manoeuvrable.
What was you favourite thing to do…in Afrika…or anywhere on the western front… when you weren’t flying? When you were on leave, what did you like to do as a hobby, what did you like to do for fun?
(Franz smiles quickly)…Play with the girls!
(I laugh)…well that’s a…that’s a good hobby! Actually, I heard a rumour that pilots used to fill their drop tanks with beer, is that true?
Oh yeah…sometimes we used to drink from it…sometimes for transport.
We share a laugh.
…I had a Messerschmitt 108 here in Vancouver…
Yeah, I think I saw a picture of it here.
Yeah…this one here. I had this one for 16 years. I sold it to an Australian.