German cockpit reply thread
 

I thought I would start a new thread for discussion to honor Anton's request that we not reply to his previous post directly.

Thanks Anton, but I don't understand why this could not have been said sooner. Also, will we be paying for the DLC cockpits or will it be an update, free of charge?
At any rate, I am relieved to hear that you still plan to release the cockpits. That does help reinforce my decision to buy the game upon release.

Let's hear what the rest of ya'll think.

Somehow, I became obligated to monitor the forum and answer all questions at the time they appear? It is 5 days or so till the first question, right?
OK, the answer is - I - personally - was busy. There is a huge event in Cologne, calling 'Gamescom', you know.

Not everyone (almost noone) is allowed to disclose any new information about the game prior release. That's publisher's only right and obligation.
I have violated it already, yes.
Why publisher is not answering then? The answer is clear - they are not reading this forum at all. That's makes sense, it is about 30 people here, all of them are simmers, and publisher's goal is it to sell 30 000 times more copies. And, unfortunately (for all of us, really), most of the buyers do not cares about not only cockpits, but Simulation mode at all.
That doesn't mean they are not respecting simmers audience, no, on the contrary - it was left mostly to me myself (there were not so many people here before demo). And so, if I am in a business trip or vacation - there could be delays between answers. Usually, it doesn't matter, you know :)

P.S.
I am pretty sure, that if everyone flight-sim lover here (let's say in maximum 1000 people) here would be able to pay, directly, let's say $500 - then there would be game only for them. With forbidden access to casual players, you know. :)))

P.P.S.
The reason why I've asked not to discuss that is that I didn't want to discuss that, not that I didn't want to discuss that in that thread. Please, do me a favour :).

The rational behind the cockpit decision is fine with me. I think we were probably given too much info for our own good. These types of decisions happen with all games and we have now been privy to the process. Anton simply gave us more than we were going to get and I am happy with that. I will get the DLC free or not and am looking forward to the release date.

I'd like to thank anton for the information, I can imagine this is the type of information that the developers knew had to come out sooner or later, but were dreading the time the subject arose, well it has and it has been a bitter pill for many of us to swallow, particularly those who love to fly Axis aircraft in IL2.

I do wish the team every success with the game and its subsequent sales, I'm sure it will attract a new fanbase on the console format, myself - I'll be holding off purchasing until those pits are available, I spent 95% of my PC time in the 109 and 190 cockpits, without them the game won't be the same to me, call it anal/silly - whatever, its what I enjoyed in Il2 , and that is what needs to be there for me to enjoy the title.

In the meantime there is Forza 3, OF Dragon Rising to fill the time - I'll be keeping an eye on what happens with BOP though ;)

This is the very reason I have closed two threads beacuse everybody DEMANDING That Anton answer these questions. Now everybody in here should feel somewhat of shame for demanding answers. Head on over to the HAWX forums where they don't answer anything.

I think it would be nice. Not hoping much for that, though.

I disagree. Making me pleased, is not such a bad thing.
I am trying to do the same thing for community, eventually.
It really could become a 'win-win'. :)

P.S. Just kidding.
Of course, you are not here to make me pleased. But I really don't see what could be discussed here, and I am feeling like I am caught in a cross-fire. Nobody seem to be really happy with this decision. But now, it is still too late to revert it to only 12th playable plane available, or move gold master by 9 months (or so) ahead to make all fighter's cockpits. So, let's just stop discuss it.

First, it is not adapting. It's completely new game. You are simply mistaken.
Second, that's exactly what we put attention for. You can check it with a demo.
Third, luckily it's not you who name the game.
Fourth, yes, you are out of line.

Edit: And, yes, you really think it's better to know things two weeks prior release, than two weeks after you've bought the game? What's wrong with the timing?

wait im confused , so now there ARE NOT german cockpits?

or only in a few?

Anton, while you are on here can you tell us which planes do have cockpits?

I didn't even mention your name.

What I was talking about was people saying that Anton needed to answer it just kept going and going. And he had a legitimate reason for not answering.

What I thought was proof was coming from the twitter page and the 505 online demo.

I apologize for saying that there would be cockpits because I got that information off of the twitter site, and from the posts from the LIVE DEMO.

Just goes to show that there is a lot of disinformation here, the twitter guy said last week there would be cockpits.
Wanting to fly the 109 and 190 primarily I am very dissappointed BUT will still buy the game knowing that they will eventually be released.
Does this mean those of us who will fly german planes online will have an advatntage? Not having a cockpit to block your view would certainly seem like an advantage and this to me for now is more dissapponiuting then anything else. I want to fly strictly with the cockpit (this is a sim right?) but I'll be damned if I'm going to get owned by somebody flying "superman view". I'm assuming there will a setting online where we all have to use the same view? Hoping.

Not the end of the world still super pumped to get home and try the demo but yeah REALLY looking forward to the DLC cockpits.

+>>

Yeah, I appreciate your sense of humour.

Sorry, don't know by heart.
I am out of office, can't check now.
Basically, those in Campaign, except those with gunners (because we have 3rd person gunner view only, by design), do have.
Can't give you exact list now.

Do you guys plan on making 1st person gunning in DLC?

that would be pretty tricky , i would rather have more cockpits then turrets

A 3rd person view would be better for defending the plane in multiplayer too. and it shows off the pretty environment

Okay. Thanks for the reply. By the way, is there going to be a plane list released before the game itself comes out?

I haven't read this, but could it be he was thinking about future?
Doesn't matter in any case.
Believe me, I know better.

Yep.

In any case, I believe, it will change rather soon (with DLC).
The real alternative was only to wait the same amount of time until the would be German planes at all, or even the game release (the last - wasn't the real option. That would be violation of agreement, cancelling the deal, our bankruptsy, and other bad things, no kidding).

there is a list on the website , but its a mixed bunch of planes

Well cockpits too of course. I'm just curious, because 3rd person gunning may give the gunner the edge.

I guess so...
Wasn't it been released already?
Sometimes I do not understand thier PR policy...
OK, I'll try to make this happen soon - but that's publisher's privelegy.

Yes, I have seen that and even put together a list of 33 planes which will be in the game when it is launched from that and the screenshots/trailers, but I'm still eagar to know what the other planes will be.

Thanks for the reply Anton.

I'm really not out to be snarky when I say the decision to release a flight sim game without cockpits is probably one of the more convoluted, confusing and bizarre decisions ever made in development/publishing of a project.

It's unfortunate and dissapointing to say the least, hopefully full support of all the planes in BoP will be added eventually. Until then.

No, for sure.
It is actually very confusing, especially if you have a lot of gunners.
It is hard to switch them, and you are confused in what you are doing, and you can miss 'your' gunner, or pilot, and it is annoying for a lot of players.
The authentitic feel, in my personal opinion,not paying out here.
So, no, at least until we'll invent something completely new (like another MP mode).

technically the game is not a sim , its a console game , and they are produced alot differently.

With sim's there is never really a strict deadline due to the amount of reasearch and testing that is needed. but console games are produced to be shipped at a certain time.

and im sure no german cockpits was more of a "time/money" issue then it was a "stupid/ignorance" issue.

I mean anton said we are FOR SURE getting those cockpits for the bf109 and fw190.

thats awesome

Not 'without cockpits', only 'with some cockpits'. And it was known before, I've never hid this.
And, please, stop it :(.

Okay, thanks for replying. It's not a big deal to me. I just wanted to know for sure if it' gonna be in or not.

Anton for President of the world!!!

Unfortunately running an Audi store means I'll be here until 9:30 tonight but I've already walked my wife through the steps over the phone on how to download this bad boy.

So excited!!!!

Bwahahaha! CLASSIC. 8)

For some reason, I find that just down right hilarious.

Nice. Very nice LOL :lol:

+1

-1 to Apeboy. Yep, unneccessary. If you start a post with "i'm not trying to be snarky" that means you had time to re-read and avoid sounding like a dick.

To paraphrase Anton's explanation, they expanded their original build of only 12 flyable planes to make the game bigger and better (with 40+) - we now have historical axis vs allies MP, instead of Spits vs P51s which the 'peanut gallery' would have complained about 100% as 'arcady' and 'not true to the original'.

We're getting German fighter cockpits......like guilty said, thats awesome.

Check your damn tone and show some respect.

Anton has spent more time answering questions on this board than any other developer of a game I've ever seen. I'm impressed by your loyalty to the fanbase Anton (I would have never been able to put up with this bunch of flight sim fanboys:mrgreen:. I'm also glad to see that the German cockpits will be added as DLC .As far as the cost this game is already $10 cheaper than most other games so paying extra does not bother me. Basically, if the publisher still sees money comming in from DLC they will be more apt. to bankroll the sequel. The game was set to be released in December, I'm happier to have this version to play with now & wait for more content.

Congratulations on the most impressive flight sim to hit a console to date Anton, and here's to much success.

Silly I know but this game makes me feel 12 again and that was 20 years ago!!! I'm going home NOW.

Thanks for giving us the complete story, Anton. I'm definitely still going to get the game, although I'm a little disappointed. Will we be able to chose which side we're on in MP? (That way I can fly Allied & have cockpits) Otherwise, I'll just stick to the single player & hold off on MP until the new cockpits come out.

I do have a couple questions if you've got the time:

Will the new cockpits be part of a free patch, a standalone DLC we have to pay for, or part of a larger DLC? If any new planes a released as DLC will they have cockpits?

Thanks for keeping us all informed, Anton. Keep up the good work!

Oops! Looks like my questions were already answered over here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8950

Thanks again for keeping us informed, Anton!:)

+1 (we're the same age, too)

LOL I did the same thing with my nephew!

Thank you for the advice.:-P

Thanks for your answer Anton, I appreciate the reply.

Bottom line, though, (and I'm all about the bottom line) is that I think all of us had it in our heads that this would be a "sim for consoles" with the option to play arcade. We did not come up with this notion out of nowhere. IL-2 is a sim franchise, and you are still selling it under that same name. Your trailers and depictions, your previews and your website, even your demo still had me believing it would be a sim. As I said before, I'm a flight instructor in real life and I can already appreciate the realistic touches you have placed in this game. It is, by all accounts, the closest thing to a sim that we have on consoles. And, as anyone who is a pilot surely knows, I don't make enough as a CFI to buy just any game I want. I have to make sure I will love it. I don't by the arcade flight sims because I expect them to be arcade-like. I leave them on the shelf.

However, with that said, even arcade games have full cockpits now (Ace Combat, BS Midway, and Blazing Angels), so don't think it silly of us to have expected more. Maybe 40 planes was ambitious. I agree. But we still ended up with 12, not 40. I do not blame you, as you appear to be our only advocate. Thank you for that. However, as a group, I think, it doesn't take a whole lot to make us happy. All other threads seem extreamly positive and helpful; several, in fact, praising the game for so many great features. However, sim fans cannot forgive not having cockpits.

Also, I honestly don't know you from Adam, so all my comments are pointed towards whomever is making the final say. Please don't take them personally.

However, just as you won't appologize for how this has turned out, I won't apologize for expecting the most out of my $50. I thank you for your hard work, but I will never feel guilty for expecting my money's worth. No one esle should, either. We were justified in our comments.

Thanks and I look forward to playing the finished version.
.

me262 cockpits
 

No german cockpits "out of the box" how very dissapointing, makes me think twice about buying birds of prey now, so would you add german cockpits in the future especially me262's?

He's already said there should hopefully be some released by October. It sounds like the Me109, FW190 & Stuka have first priority (I'm going by his reply to guiltyspark over here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8950)

+1

Thats the thing with young people today...you give 'em gold and they complain its just shiny yellow...

Has anyone EVER met a developer on a forum prepared to answer questions?
(let alone a developer with a sense of humour....)

This ain't ass kissin, its plain and simple gratitude for someone giving us THE most precious commodity...their TIME.

So for anyone here bitching just stick to a golden rule...
NEVER say anything on a forum you wouldn't say face to face...if we all try and follow that premise we'll all get along just fine.

Now for the whippersnappers who are 32 claiming pre-teen behaviour well I'm Motherfudging 38 and going on 6 (one step away from running around with my arms out wing-stylee shouting NNNEEEEOOOOOWWWDAGADAGADAGADAGADAGADAGADAGADAGA!!! )

Enjoy the demo PS3 peeps

Thanks for your patience and best of luck with your future endeavours Anton

Go Team B.o.P. !!

Friday night beers are kickin in so smile Bitches!:grin:
________
Yamaha Ym2151

I do this. :shock:

By the way, whippersnappers? You're 38, not 88! LOL!

I totally agree with you. The only time I've met developers on a forum is with SCEA and MLB: The Show. Those guys are just as awesome over there for spending time doing things on a forum that aren't even necessary.

You are killing me with your replies:-P:-P

i dont think anyone is really questioning antons efforts to keep everyone informed or his dedication to BoP but rather the publishers continual efforts to fob this game off to be a half-arsed shoot-em up inspite of its name. if it wasnt il-2, it wouldn't really matter to anyone i dont think.

the news that you will have to purchase cockpits as part of a DLC pack is sad and frustrating for me as i dont have a lot of disposable income right now and i have found a lot of DLC to be a waste of money in all honesty. i only hope that whatever becomes available is worth shelling out for.

just out of interest anyone, why didnt ubisoft pick up this project as they did with the pc titles?

Sad to see this trend of DLC being required to fully enjoy console games nowadays.

Too many fanboys here are willing to accept a game that is 75% finished and get all excited when a developer responds on a chat board. What happened to all of you who were saying there were going to be German cockpits in the game and all of us who were questioning this were just trying to cause trouble? Now you're saying it's no big deal and we should be grateful for what ever is released.

Like I've said before, I really tried hard to like this game but there are too many issues and this whole German cockpit issue is the "straw that broke the camel's back".

I wouldn't say they are fanboys. Frankly, I understand the rationale Anton presented in his explanation. Take your pick: 12 planes (all allied) in MP, or 40 (with final builds for axis planes to come). Knowing that, I can understand the push to include 40 planes, although incomplete, which contrasted the agreement with the publisher. The game could be delayed another 9 months to finish everything, or it can be offered up to the public now with DLC to come.

I'll take the game now and buy DLC as it comes out.

I don't feel the need to kiss Anton's backside, but I do feel the need to appreciate the effort he makes to be open, honest, and informative. All of this could have remained a big secret until the game was released. How would we have felt if we spent the money, only to find out what we now know?

You can always wait until after the game, title update, and DLC has been released. Listen to what people have to say, then make your decision.

I understand your frustration, but we can't have everything we want.

it isnt a big deal because they are being made as we speak :|

It could be much much worse.

Look at operation flashpoint dragon rising for example.

-No fixed wing aircraft.
-No leaning
-No Mission editor
-4v4 multiplayer
-Complete lack of realism


At least this game still has the flight model and simulation mode to hold it together while we wait for the DLC

This game is great , while dissapointed about the cockpits I know they are coming and 99.9% of the time a developer would never let the fans know about future DLC like that.

We are lucky and the game will be great.

I guess I just don't understand why these are the only two options. We don't have to be satisfied with what they give us. That's what makes a market economy so great.
This isn't an example of your best friend doing you a favor and making a free game for you in his spare time. We are paying money for this product, and this is their job. We have a right to say what we think. I hope I have been posting mainly constructive criticism, but if not then I will try to make myself more clear.

My goal here is not to make friends with the developer, but to tell him what I honestly think. I look at this as an opportunity to push for improvement and higher expectations. If you don't agree with me, then fair enough.

I'll stick to my guns!

Agree or not, thanks for hearing me out!

I see your point, but in this case Anton told us what the deal was, its a rough world. They aint super heros who can create everything just by thought.
They have bosses aswell who tell them what to and not to do. They did their best they could, and still going on!

If you dont want it dont buy it. Would be sad though.
They have orders aswell by supervisors they just cant do what they like.
Even if they come up with great ideas, some big guy behind the scene will make the final dicisions.

And to me its great they have fought for their own ideas into the product.
And not to forget still are!

Actually, I think all of your posts are very well thought out. In fact, I tend to agree with what you say. Bottom line, I still plan to buy the game the way it is and puchase DLC when it becomes available.

Okay or not, this is the choice we have. This is the best I've seen on consoles thus far; and considering I'm not a PC gamer, I'm more than happy to give my money for this game.

I don't think anyone does. :grin:

LOL! :cool:

Absolutely! I agree 100 percent.

I also agree with irrelevant; this is definately the best we have seen so far (but I still won't let them get away with not being the best ;) ). And for the record, I have pre-ordered a copy and will be picking it up. Even though I haven't said so, the rest of the game does look great (though I really needed to hear Anton say cockpits weren't completely out of the question).

Good discussion, gents. This forum has been a nice distraction ;).

^^ Exactly! I like playing on my 56". This allows me to do that. Yes, I've hooked my PC to my TV before with IL2, but its just a hassle and takes up too much room.

Hopefully this will get more people interested in sims and we see future titles that get better and better! I am sick of games like BA.

I don't think you get it right.
40 planes were not ambitious, it was actually hadn't been planned to made 40 playable planes.
Originally, we were going to start with 12, and all others only for AI.
But because we had physics flight models, exterior models of good quality, and also because it is console game and most players will definetly play not in cockpits-only view (that was true even for PC game), it was decided (our idea, not publisher's) to make these planes playable as well.
Timeline and budget hadn't allowed to make all other cockpits, so it wasn't an option.
As you can see, the game was even announced with 12th playable planes - and only than appears information, that in MP there will be more.
That's because publisher have checked with plans/agreements, not with us, before releasing this information.

I think, 12th planes are also pretty good for a re-starting franchise for consoles, but my opinion, that 40 are still better.
And, unfortunately, if we would make ultimatum to publisher (9 months or no game), it would mean cancelling game, that's not talking about business ethic and ruining relationship.

And, also comparing our planes/cockpits with BA - isn't fair. Their cockpits are pretty useless in any case, and the quality is incomparable. We were able to make hundred of planes of that quality, but that's not something we were going to do.

Thank you very, very much Anton. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing DLC's around my birthday and I'll have plenty of MS points by then.:)

I fully understand the lack of cockpits in the finished game. I just want to thank you very much for keeping simulation mode, flight stick support, and adding 28+ more planes to the list.

I think we should all cut Anton some slack here. Not that I am happy about the German planes not having cockpits, but it is not Anton's fault and he is doing his best to help us out, and the choice of 12 planes with cockpits and 28 without is a lot better than 12 aircraft total. I know people, including myself, are a bit upset over this issue, but imagine how outraged all the Il2 1946 veterans would have been if there had only been 12 flyable planes, all of them Allied.

Until the cockpits come out for the Bf109 I will just be flying something like the Spitfire that does have a cockpit, and maybe the change in styles will be good for my flying.

Thanks for the info Anton! I'm loving the PS3 demo....

Fair enough.

I agree with you 100% It's not Anton's fault for doing this, and be realistic everyone. This isn't the first time a game has come up short like this (Don't take the the wrong way Anton, or anyone else on here), there are plenty of other games out there that have shown that they can't go the full length that their audience would like. I do believe that Anton said something about a possible DLC to have German cockpits for the 109 and 190. So be patient, and maybe try out the other planes. I for one will be a strict Yak pilot :D

Right on , MEGA DITTO'S
DESODE

Wow lucky me I saw this thread.
I didn’t know that this game neither gets a German campaign nor skirmish missions. It is even more disappointing that they won’t even have virtual cockpits in multiplayer without extra costs.

Since I don’t care about multiplayer and I call myself a “fan” of Luftwaffentechnik my only choice was to cancel the preorder I made after playing your marvelous demo.

An aerial combat game set in Europe of World War 2 without a playable Luftwaffe? – Not with me.
And whoever is responsible for the decision to go for buyable DLC is a crappy bastard to me.

I really like your approach to the game play, the demo was really nice and so much better than the other aerial combat games about WW2 on consoles but your feature and release strategy spoiled it completely for me. If you make another game including the Luftwaffe or set in the Pacific including the Japanese air force then I’m sure to give you another chance.

Well until then,
a disappointed “not-quite-costumer”

So why not support this game now in hopes of a better sequel? Not every game franchise started with greatness. Perfection takes time and sequels.;) sequels we may not get if not enough people support the first game.

Blame Adam Smith or any of the other founders of modern day capitalism..:rolleyes:
________
Yamaha Psr-S500

Zing!! :P

I was thinking the same thing. Anton said the Pacific Theatre could be easilly done in a sequel.

I just hope they release the cockpits and planes in large DLC's.

They even have the example of how the original series expanded, so Gaijin can use the same ideas as a basis and the Pacific is the obvious step for a sequel.

Big enough change to be a real sequel, and hopefully they will follow in Oleg Maddox's steps and release the game with the new content, all the content from Birds of Prey and all the DLC released in the meanwhile as a single game. If they did this they might have to go multi disc with the 360 version and allow the content from one of the discs to be installed to the hard drive, but it would be worth it.

this is the problem for a lot of fans though. basically, it is a sequel, so its hard to take when a lot of things have had to be shelved that were the norm for its previous incarnations on the pc.

its unfortunate that people will be disappointed for expecting that BoP would provide that experience on consoles and it comes up short, but its understandable. its IL-2 Sturmovik. if it was a completely new franchise/concept then it will probably have been cut some slack. just look how badly recieved the new star wars movies were as a prime example of fans not getting what they had hoped for! :grin: