Question for Luthier
 

This is a basic question for Luthier, it's not intended to be a discussion thread or answered with assumptions from people who think they know what is going on. If you want to start another discussion, trolling, or flame war, go create your own thread.

Luthier, your answers are still somewhat vague on the future of the content in Cliffs Of Dover.
Please allow me to remind you of your comments over the last few weeks.



All of the answers here contradict eachother in some form or the other, so in order to clarify the situation I've identified the three most probable options. I realise your busy so I made it quick, an answer of A, B, or C is good enough.

A) Sequel will install ontop of Cliffs Of Dover (merge), allowing clod content to be used & updated with sequel.

B) Sequel will be stand-alone, but will include the content from clod allowing it to be used and updated with the rest of the engine.

C) Cliffs Of Dover and its content will be abandoned by Maddox Games, and/or handed to the community for further development.

Thanks & Regards.

All three answers are in agreement, so why the thread:confused::confused:

Basically:

Here come the mod threads...

Salute

Agree with original poster. The future of the CoD content is unclear.

Are all the maps and planes from CoD going to be included with BoM and in an updated form?

Or just the planes?

Or nothing?

Quote:
Can the sequel be merged with COD like the original il2 series and if it can will we get to test features that will be appearing in the sequel I.e. Weather etc.
This question Ilya! Please confirm that the sequel will be able to be merged with our current game as in all previous IL2 releases.
Definitely not planning to release any sequel features as add-ons for Cliffs of Dover, sorry.

It is clear that all the A/C and maps in CloD will be included in The Sequel " all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine". The only difference between A & B is that with B you don't need to already have CloD installed, and that would only be of interest to someone who doesn't currently have CloD. Is the OP trying to decide whether or not to purchase CloD?

I really don't see any contradiction in those 3 quotes.

Here's my understanding of it

A) Sequel will install ontop of Cliffs Of Dover (merge), allowing clod content to be used & updated with sequel.

This is true.

B) Sequel will be stand-alone,

This is true too. In other words the sequel will be a standalone product for those who have not purchased COD. If you have COD then A applies.

but will include the content from clod allowing it to be used and updated with the rest of the engine.

No. I don't think so.


C) Cliffs Of Dover and its content will be abandoned by Maddox Games, and/or handed to the community for further development.

No. But map making SDK will be released allowing community to make changes to COD map(s)

I asked Luthier specifically about this, assuming the sequel will be loaded over CoD. This was his reply:

I see you have not an answer yet, so let me help.

At this time I cannot comment on the sequel.

My take is.....When you buy the Sequel you will not need COD as all COD's content will be in the sequel, but much improved because of the updated game engine, AI, GUI, etc etc. Will it be improved enough to sell is another question, as people won't buy without doing their due diligence this time.

Looks like we are all reading something different into what Luthier has posted. As I read it C.o.D. will be abandoned after the final "Steam" patch, no more content just as the original Il2 was.
The sequel with the new engine will include the content from C.o.D. (or most of it) as a stand alone with further expansion being able to merge with this (as in FB, AEP and Pacific Fighters).
What we need is a playable demo of the new sequel to gain some confidence back that it will perform as advertised before we lay out our hard earned dollars for it. Most of us, especially those with Sli/Crossfire have been extreemly disappointed with the support we have had with this sim especially after the promises going back to April 2011.

I don't know if the sequel will give, free of charge, CoD to the sequel buyers or of it will benefit CoD by simply overwriting the core elements. Personally I have invested too much time and wishful thinking to abandon CoD if buying the sequel means not only an extension to the series but a fixing of core issues in CoD. Luthiers comments about 'no more fixes under the CoD project' seems to be talking about 'project funding' and no more is available for CoD but under the sequels's project funding it sounds as though things are being done to improve many aspects that will also benefit CoD.

And yes, a playable demo or even a limited beta accessible by registered testers (as was MS Flight and World of Planes) would be nice.

Uh, guys? Luthier has stated that the sequel will not merge into CLOD.

CLOD is dead. Give it up.

Here's my take on things, Luthier has already stated that he is a business man, its all about the money, this is why CLOD will be abandoned. So it would make no financial sense at all to have a sequel that features the content of CLOD, the sequel if installed over CLOD will give you all content and update/fix CLOD (we hope), if you dont have CLOD you just get the Russian stuff, I bet later down the line you will be able to buy the merged pack too. It makes a lot of financial sense for Luthier to not fix CLOD, if CLOD was fixed and working fully right now with a better netcode how many of us would buy the Russian add on?? Now we have no choice but to buy it if we want to get our game working, like Luthier said, ITS BUSINESS.

COD doesn't have to merge with the Sequel. The Sequel will have all of COD's content, which amounts to exactly the same thing as a merge. It will include the COD maps and missions, Russian maps and missions, and whatever improvements they've made to the game engine/features like the, AI, AI Commands, FM, DM, GUI, Clouds/Weather, and SDK etc. If the improvements are good enough the Sequel will sell, if they aren't the Sequel will join the dead Standalone COD.

I certainly hope that is the case.. but it is all as clear as mud. As is apparent from different people's interpretation.

If the sequel does not include the map & planes for a BoB scenario they will loose a lot of potential sales. Me for one. I want to fly Spitfires & Hurricanes over England.. simple as that. I have no interest in a Russian front.

err couldn't disagree more with your evaluation of what is good for their business. They don't have to fix CloD to include the maps & planes from CloD in the sequel. The present FM issues in CloD are due to the borked backbone of the game. Which they will have to fix for the sequel, therefore adding the planes & map should not be of any real expense to them and will only increase the appeal of the sequel and therefore increase sales, its all business.

If they don't fix the backbone of the engine the sequel will be a disaster anyway. Hence why there is no way in hell i'll be buying the sequel on release. I'll be eagerly waiting for impartial reviews before i touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Wow, sounds like you are very good with finances.

I don’t understand what all the confusion is about, perhaps reading too much into luthier’s syntax. He has stated many times that their intention was to continue with this series the same way they did with the original one, whether this will happen will only be known in the future.

The original IL2 was ‘abandoned’, wasn’t it? You had to buy the sequel to get an update. Pacific Fighters was also ‘abandoned’ in that it cannot be updated beyond 4.07 – you need to buy ’46 to get any further updates. And the last version included the content of all of the previous versions.

I don’t think that this term is particularly apt in these circumstances, although it probably sounds suitably dramatic from a certain viewpoint.

Your opinion, stated as fact, as usual.

Ohh that sounds back handed ;)

I was a business development manager for about 10 years... :-P (it was nothing more than my opinion on the matter)

Sorry:).. hope there is reason to buy

I really don't care how you read my statements. Sometimes its hard to understand the direction the series is going from the developers comments, but its the most logical direction for the moment. Fact...Luthier said CODs content will be in the Sequel. Fact...the development has rewritten the Sound and Graphic engine and are currently rewriting the GUI, and making improvement to other features. Do you believe the game engine/features would somehow revert to the 2012 version when you fly a Spit over the Channel Map in the Sequel? Of course not, but the whole direction could change, we can only make logical conclusions from the few facts at hand.

Do you have a link to this statement?

Can the sequel be merged with COD like the original il2 series and if it can will we get to test features that will be appearing in the sequel I.e. Weather etc.
This question Ilya! Please confirm that the sequel will be able to be merged with our current game as in all previous IL2 releases.
Definitely not planning to release any sequel features as add-ons for Cliffs of Dover, sorry.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...6&postcount=71

Links post content 04-13-2012, 02:18 PM





.

This is funny actually! Everyone has a different take on what the situation is. :)

I think the main thing to remember in making sense of what can seem like contradictory statements is that the sequel process will follow the same strategy as the original il-2 series. That means that advances to the game engine and new aircraft/theatres will install over previous releases but will also be standalone packages.

But I don't believe that previous aircraft were usually included in subsequent instalments (with the exception of il-2 1946).



In the context of the question I think he is referring to carrying work on the COD aircraft over (FMs, etc - the high altitude performance will only be addressed for the sequel - so it will make sense to revisit the COD aircraft then) but I don't think (?) that the COD aircraft and maps will be included with the sequel.


That is one messy quote from Luthier and I'm 99.9% convinced he is referring here to sequel features being 'tested' in or 'added on' to COD before the sequel comes out. He said elsewhere that they won't be doing that. Still it's clumsily expressed and can be easily misinterpreted as you have done here.

But it really has been said many times that COD will be merged with the sequel. See quote below from the same answers session:


Quote:
I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?

Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.

-----------------------

Bottom line - I'm right folks! Trust me. I'm prepared to take bets on this. :) A lot of this stuff has come up before. You sometimes have to read between the lines and get the context of quotes that seem to imply something else.

Again please read this from Luthier.

KG26_Alpha I presume you mean this:

Quote:
I know you stated the next CloD patch will be the last, so that means any fixes, advances and such into the game engine that come from the sequel will not be translated at some time or another back into CloD? Will Clod be completely abandoned in whatever state the final patch leaves it with no hope small updates, etc?

Luthier:
Why would you think that? We’ve never done that before, and I’ve always stated that our plans remain the same. There were many issues in the original IL-2 in 2001. After a few updates to the original, Forgotten Battles was released and there were no more updates to the original Il-2. That doesn’t mean it was abandoned however! You can still play all of the original Il-2 content with 1946, all carried over and updated with the rest of the engine.

versus this

Originally Posted by luthier View Post
No Il-2 product was ever backwards-compatible. You could not take a Pacific Fighters patch and apply it to an Ace Expansion Pack install. You cannot take graphic improvements in 4.12 and install them on top of the original Il-2.

The new line will work the same way. If you own the old product, you'll be able to install a new one on top of it; or you'll be able to get a compilation product like 1946 that includes old content from previous releases.

But once the sequel is released, there obviously won't be any more support for stand-alone CoD.

I know what he means here. You need to give a little leeway for the answers being on a forum - little self-contained throwaway, chatty responses to questions. Then it makes sense.

But this clarification and answers business has got seriously out of hand :)

It's really comical actually. We went through something similar a few months back, when there were all kinds of misunderstandings.

Maybe Luthier needs to re-release a definitive clarification of what the situation is to get everyone on the same page.

I'm sorry. This will sound really smug and big headed, but I'm confident I'm right on my interpretation of this. But feel free to chase your tails for the next month or two and cook up another needless crisis or two along the way.;)

Please read the Luthier's anwser with a more open mind.

Here's a quote about the maps.

__________________________________________________ ________
Quote:
You said earlier:'we really want to release at least the map-making SDK to the public “as is”, which is why they’re not covered by the next patch v. sequels discussion.'
If this is released will it be possible for an organised community effort to improve certain elements of the main COD map or will the sdk be only for creating new small maps?

Yes, the SDK will allow people to edit existing maps.


Quote:
As you probably know quite a few people are disappointed with the current map and feel it could be made better by making changes to tree coverage/ hedgerows/etc. These would not be difficult changes technically, but would be time consuming and labour intensive - and therefore ideal for talented community members to undertake whilst the developers focus on the sequel (almost like a Team Daidolos for COD).
If the choice is between NO further work on the map OR allowing an (organised) community effort to make improvements (with your final approval regarding quality) would you be agreeable to this happening?

See above.
__________________________________________________ _______________


Luthiers answers say CODs maps and aircraft will be in the sequel. Hopefully the SDK will also be included. No one really cares if they include the missions and campaigns, but I see no real reason they wouldn't be include them. If they manage to improve the game engine, AI, AI commands, GUI, Clouds/Weather, COOPs, and FMB etc, the community and third parties will make far better mission and campaigns.

Clear as mud , communication has always been a disaster .

Your opinion of what he said

And you said they were rewriting the AI, which they havent said, in fact they have said the opposite which is they think the AI is great, ergo your opinion, not fact

Opinion again.

They're working on the AI and comms - for the sequel.

Check luthier's answers.

Maybe you should take off your blinders and read Luthiers answers again.

Blind? Not.

I mean flight AI, not radio comms or speech, but flying.


Quote:
2. Lastly has there been any progress on making the AI work and fly like we would expect or are we stuck with either barrel rolls or no reaction at all?
It already does a lot more than barrel rolls or no reaction.

Quote:

Stop saying it will be fixed in sequel and mixing fact and opinion. Ilya does not think it is broken, he only is speaking about comms and speech. In my opinion.

Its not my problem you can't discern a fact from an opinion in a forum that is 99% opinion. You only have a problem with it, because it doesn't agree with your opinion.

I agree with Luthier, "it already does a lot more than barrel rolls or no reaction" Infact I find the AI alot harder to shoot down in COD than any other WW2 combat flight sim because of their evasive maneuvers. Although the damage model is part of that equation. Infact if they only did barrel rolls they would be easier to shoot down. That said, I think it should be easier that it currently is. I don't know if its a damage model issue or any other factor.

Most of the AI's poor flying wouldn't happen if they followed orders. This is a very important fix, I'm sure the devs are looking at. They wouldn't fly into the ground so much if they weren't trying to stay in formation.

Thankyou for your admission that they are not working on the AI as you stated they were. It is nice to see someone admit they were wrong. I respect that kind of thing. And I respect your opinion on the AI, though I am different opinion on that. There are hundreds of posts here from people complaining about the combat AI, which believe is much better in modded 1946, and even an old sim like BOB2 has superior better AI, not even comparable. Tho you admit you don't fly this sim anymore, and I do, and so far I have 370 hours on the sim, all of in single player, so I feel confident in saying this about the AI compared to 1946 and BOB2. It is hard to take an opinion on the AI from someone who says they dont fly the sim! (Why do people even post here when they don't even play the game, that I do not understand? Oh well, it is your life to waste) The only way to get it even respectable is to adjust settings in full mission builder and that should not be necessary. It should be possible to make mission in quick mission that is also enjoyable, but now it is not. Oh well, since they don't fix it, we are stuck with what we got.

Ok as this has degraded into what the op didnt want its closed for now.