Frustrated by level bombing. Please HELP!
 

Im a licenced pilot since 1992, ive flown flight sims since intellivisions B17 bomber in 1975 to this beautifully rendered sim. I have been flight simming for probably 5000 hours and ive enjoyed hundreds of hours in the old Il2 HE111 level bombing and loving it. Im not stupid or inexperienced but this is very very hard for me to grasp.

Ive had this game 7 months, gone through all the patching and hours of frustrating sessions and ive yet to level bomb one target in any plane there is here.

I read the posts and try the procedures and after hours of frustration i give up and go back to the forums only to find that some bug in the program prevents the procedures from working or the proceedure is incorrect and the program is fine.
Other than going back to good old IL2 where i can line up a target, press the wing leveller and make minor trim tweeks to hit my target perfectly, what can i do here?

|Its very very frustrating. Youd think theyd make a simple bombing mode that replicates the old IL2 so you could actually enjoy this beautiful sim, but i guess thats not going to happen. Why not i have no idea.

I would like to get in any bomber with a competant bombadier to show me the ropes. If youd like to fly together in a bomber message me on steam.

Add me as a friend. "Megahurt" on steam.

id love to see someone sellect a plane where the systems actually work, choose a target and actually hit it.

Please help.

Are you using the latest Beta Patch? (not available through Steam)

You might want to check out this thread:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33649

There is also a good informative thread over at ATAG. the thread has a long history going back to the original game release version, so you might want to read through it all:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...u-88-Tutorials

I hope this helps!

i read some of it but...
 

|Im not trying to be lazy but after hours and hours of reading and studying and trying techniques to no avail, im realy hoping for a simple do this do that and not another maration of circular discussion that becomes obsolete with every patch.

Its so frustrating.

And you're a licensed pilot? Licensed for what? :cool: Well, I'm not, but I strongly believe that every pilot should do one thing first: Finding out which switch does what. That way, you should stumble almost certainly over the limited-axes-Autopilot. Refer to the blue bomber pilots from here on ^-^

Perhaps a Vulcan Mind Meld is the answer.

But seriously, there is no easy way.....

Definitely install the latest beta patch first since the blue bombsights have been corrected. There are a few useful threads with even more useful videos in them:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28754

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23546

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24782

These should get you started but specific questions are welcome.

The lack of horizontal stabilizer in the Blenheim is annoying, especially since you can't use 6DOF to see the target clearly on the entire approach from the bombardier's seat. Low-altitude level bombing (1000-3000 feet) is OK but any higher than that reduces accuracy considerably. Divebombing in the Blenheim works well if the flak isn't too bad.

Level bombing in the HE-111 is good now.

In case you have the recent beta installled, you clearly make sth. wrong. If not, install it and be happy :D

With this beta you can hit precisely from over 4000m :-)
Take the He 111H-2 or Ju-88 though.... the He 111P-2 gyrocompass is bugged atm.

Thanks
 

Ill read the posts listed above and make sure i have the latest beta installed. I appreciate knowing the models that still have bugged instruments that dont work. Theres a bit of frustration avoided.

Redroach-- Im licenced for cessnas...single engine under 13000 lbs.. since 1992 and no ive never bombed anything with that. I only mentioned that to say that i do know a little about reading up on systems and general avaition. I didnt say it made me an Ace. As a matter of fact, i fly bombers because in all my combat flight sim experience I STINK AS A FIGHTER PILOT.
Id really like to fly a mission with a competant bombadier and have someone show me it can be done.

Megahurt on steam.

See if you can get hold of Blackdog_kt and watch Jimbops video's. I have pretty much nailed the Blenheim thanks to his vids.

Megahurt,

I am in EST time. I have been recently on and off ATAG practicing bombing atm. If you want we can use ATAG TS3 and can hop in Ju-88's and I can talk you through a few bomb runs. I have a couple set flightplans for 2 targets that give you plenty of time to align and trim. I use mostly the methods Blackdog describes, except I use normal course mode for low altitude >3000m

The flying is the easy part the juggling back and forth from bomber to pilot and last second course / bombsight corrections can be tough unless you have trimmed level and on target well before you use automation as even making corrections in automation only goes so far depending on how well you trimmed level and on target before hand. Also the Ju-88 incorrect cruise speed makes it harder with the r-22 than it should be.

Not sure on my play timing as i am random but regular but if you are interested I will add you on steam.

Well, i went on ATAG and enjoyed a very engrossing tutorial from ATAG Keller. He piloted the plane while directing me as to the function of the bombadier station.

Its possible to operate but very difficult to master. Im sure that will make it very satisfying when a target is hit successfully.

Here's what i learned.

We used the He111 H2

Before Takeoff

Firstly, as pilot its nessary to set your Giro compass in tune with your magnetic compass before take off and ofcoarse recalibrate it periodically during flight.

Then switch to the bombadier and set the salvo to drop the desired number of bombs (dial and lights)and then set the distance you want the bombs to spread(black knob at bottom you cant see without track ir..do it by looking left then down then right without it) to zero to make the cluster pound the target with as many bombs as possible.

Next-- Decide your bombing altitude and *speed you want to be at when dropping the bombs and input them into the bombadier sight. Its important to be at that height and speed in order to set the automated bomb drop and have it hit the target.
Heres the tricky part. The game shows you indicated airspeed but requires true airspeed to be input into the bombsight. Better have your own conversion chart handy to adjust the speed input to consider your altitude (1.25 x IAS @15000 FT) because thinner air at high altitude offsets your indicated airspeed. God help you if you have a headwind or tailwind because there no way to determine what that is as i can figure. (radios dont work so no ground station to tell weather)

After takeoff

Find a key point that will give you a good line to the target and set your autopilot course heading after you are allready on that course. If you do it before your there your coarse will be incorrect when you finally get on it. The course mode 22 (leveller) would be perfect if it worked but it doesn't.
Get on your target coarse as best you can. Get the target in your sights with course autopilot on and reinput your calculated true airspeed and altitude if it needs adjustment. When you feel its right, set the automated bombsight in action and watch from the bottom gunner.

Simple.

Take into account that almost every instrument in the plane is bugged and requires much compensation by trial and error and buildings are no longer rendered above two thousand meters and flack will kill you below five thousand.

In short, its probably easier when your very profficient at flying the bomber and using the bombsight to do it all yourself, but as in reality, its a two man operation.

It can be done.


Add me on steam... We try it together.

Megahurt

Megahurt,

VERY GLAD to hear you had a good experience!!!

Keep up the training!!

Hope to see you in the skies one day!

A good experience
 

As for it being a good experience....

This is by far the most beautifully renderred flight sim ive ever flown. I know there's a few bugs and it does have a very steep learning curve, but so far ive spent over 400 hours flying it and thats 50 bucks well spent.

Excellant fun and touring the countryside at dawn has never been better.

Sounds good, I am learning the Blenheim at the moment which I feel has an easier bombsight system.

To help with the IAS to TAS conversion I found this app for android phones on the internet, very handy to do on the fly. :)

'on the fly', very good! There is also a conversion table toward the back of the manual.

Something to consider is Altimeter QNH setting. Given that the Sim default QNH is unbelievably low at around 995mb to 997mb (normal standards is 1013) this could result in significant altitude related errors unless you set the altimeter correctly before take off. Any error works out at around 30ft/10m per mb error.

The errors induced are 2 fold. Any altitude error will affect the TAS calculation (Minor) but will also affect the Bomb range (major) since you would be releasing from a false altitude though all your Bomb sight settings appear correct. A 10mb pressure setting error results in 300ft/100m release altitude error .... that will result in a HUGE bomb range error in Level Bombing

Solution is to Reset the altimeter on every flight. This can be done by setting the airfield elevation to its correct value before flight. This will then result in the correct QNH (Pressure setting) for the map. As you will see its always in the region of 995-997mb. PDF in the attached zip file has the exact airfield elevation for each airfield in CLOD taken from inside FMB

Also don't forget the Height setting is height above target not Altitude. So it needs to be:

SIGHT SETTING = ALTITUDE - TARGET ELEVATION

More observations
 

Absolutely Chromius, lets fly.

I have also noticed that after the plane is properly trimmed and on a flight path toward target with velocity and height set in the sight, you can switch to "course mode 22" (with gyro properly set) and steer the plane from the bombsight by tweeking the gyro - + untill you are dead on. Cross hairs over the target, bombs armed and doors open, the automated release works well with the salvo set to full and the interval set to zero.

Could this be any easier???

Fun Wow.

Megahurt.

Yeah, that is exactly what I have been doing instead of using the thumb lever on the yoke, I use the dg in 1 degree increments, and just adjust the bombsight speed till its steady. I have not had many issues with drift yet, but am unsure how it is handled in the sim vs real life. I just move sight right or left till sideslip stabilizes then move sight back to center and use dg to swing back till its stable.

I am curious if in real life the rudder trim was locked out in course and r-22 mode and elevator trim in r-22 mode. They move but do nothing.

Testing out different fuel/ bomb loads now for little drop in R-22 and cruise climb gains. Also checking if the 4x 250 vs 2x 500 have different drag.

Oh yeah cant add you in steam, your name is there, but it says profile is not set up.

S!

Interesting thread, and got many good hints.

One problem still bothers me:
How do you get the course autopilot to fly straight? .. I set the gyro to compass heading, set the course to same and engage autopilot. The plane starts to weave right and left. It goes in the right direction, but keeps banking from side to side in a sidewinder manner. I've tried to force the plane to go straight with the stick and also with minor changes in the AP heading and it works for a while, but then again it starts to bank.

Is there any way to calm it down? :)

Oh, and another thing:
What loads can the He-111 P2 (or H2, which one is better btw? :) ) handle well? I tried the 8x250kg load with 60% fuel and I couldn't get past 2km with 1.2 ATA and fine pitch. I kept the speed steady at 200km/h with elevator trim. The climbing just stopped on the 2km line. Too much load I guess :confused:

Ok, a third thing:
The R22 autopilot thingie... this should be the "level stabilizer" we had in old IL-2? .. Well it just sends my He-111 to a spiral. What am I doing wrong? :)
EDIT: Tested it one more time, this time it put me into a 10+ m/s dive. Elev. trim didn't seem to have any effect on it.

Before engaging course mode or r-22 make sure plane is trimmed. For course if you are climbing you can adjust elevator as needed in course mode. But it is better to be trimmed for climb or level flight before engaging course mode. Elevator, Rudder, Elevator, Rudder, Aileron if needed last, then course mode.

If you use the course left or right you need to manually level out the turn on the desired course or it will go back and forth a bit, the course mode uses ailerons only to make turns.

R-22 mode is meant for level flight and uses the rudder only to make adjustments and is also set with the Directional gyro as the Course Mode is. You want to be trimmed for level cruise usually as fast a speed as possible because depending on your load of fuel/bombs you may sink, elevator trim is locked out. I do not know what speed the He-111 needs to stay level, on the Ju-88 it wants 335-350 to stay level depending on the weight.

As far as the He-111 loads I can not answer that as I have not spent much time in it.

Aloha!

I learned my bombing from some excellent vids by nadasero1 @youtube. It`s in german, but very well explained.

I only tried bombing in the he-111 for having a nice autopilot and within a nice bombing mode! The "kurs22" first drops down the plane for having the right speed, to level the plane out! But keeps perfect the heading towards the target and as megahurt found out it`s so easy adjustable for changing the heading.
The one thing i just have to remind me of is to activate the bombs...i always forget! :-)

As Chromius said you need to trim well. Do not skimp on this step - good trim is very important before activating autopilot.

Untamo

I think the gyro compass in the He111 H2 is the only one that works.
You must match the gyro compass to the magnetic compass before take off. Trim it out so that when you engage the r22 mode autopilot the headings are the same. It may rock less and your coarse autopilot will be in sync.


Im just learnng too. It is pretty intense. :)

S!

Thanks for answers. I had the plane (almost) perfectly trimmed before engaging the course autopilot or the R22. The banking is quite annoying but I can keep it down with the stick. Just can't go and get another beer while climbing ;) .. When I get back, it's already spiraling towards ground.

Okay, maybe I waited too little time for it to get into speed. Have to test it again and give it time :) And test it with H-2 too.

Could someone give some hint on the proper loadouts? With the 8x250kg load I couldn't get past 2km.

Gents,

For the 111 check this out: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33815 ;)

S!

Okay, just tested the H-2 last night, and boy, does it work better than the P-2 :) The course AP doesn't go crazy like in P-2 and the climb rate kept good past 3km ... no further test data as a Spit shot me down ;)

Is there a guide to the Fiat Br 20?
Heard there may be problems with multiplayer bomb loadout? We plan to use the Br 20 and G.50 in a Malta campaign we are working on vs Hurricaine Mk1's and Bleinhiems...