The unfortunate truth
 

Iv come to the conclusion that cod was just a "beta" for the soon to be released russian front squeal. I dont know what happened through all those years of supposed building of the game but something went terribly wrong. If one were to just look at the game as a whole you can see so much missing that should be there for a full featured game. Take into the account that they want to add ground vehicles and all this "other" stuff I can say that this is no longer a flight sim. On the flip side what option do we really have? at this point this is really the only ww2 flight "sim" game out there...there really no other option...I want to flame this game so bad but its all we have. we are a dying breed of gamers left with little to nothing for this type of genre...I remember when airwarrior, battle of Britain, aces high, janes fighiters, b-17, and many more flight sims ruled the pc gaming isle. Now its just a distant memory... So I guess this is what were left with. A half baked game from a group of game developers that have good intentions but never deliver. Patch after patch after patch...when the sequel hits im sure it will be much better. but for now this "beta" phase is just sad....Again, what choice does an old ww2 sim fan have?

The fact that they're only going to put token effort into CLOD has been apparent for some time.

We've already seen official statements that they aren't going to fix the flight models until after Battle of Moscow comes out.

What is a 'turth'?

Err doesn't the beta patch contain changes to the flight model, some of which already have the Rather Annoyed Force up in arms ;)

+1

s! :(

lol fixed. sorry abit tired.

With this game looking worse and worse from patch to patch, it's actually encuraging for other companies to get into ww2 combat flight siming.
Before the CLOD release, everyone, including other companies, were aware of the very high standards products released by Maddox Games and didn't risk getting into competition with them. Maddox Games had the market cornered.
Fast forward one year. Now everyone out there knows this team is a shadow of the powerhouse it once was, so I'm sure others will get into this genere and compete for all this honest and loyal customers.

Competition is the soul of progress. Bring it.

yeah I think you right. When oleg left the soul left. we are indeed left with the shell of what once was a great gaming empire. I mean they are trying but to little affect.

Meanwhile at the Maddox Games headquarters....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCj9...eature=related

So what???

The unfortunate truth here is that no mater what 1C does there will be a group that is not happy.

Don't sing the swan's song yet.

This is a beta patch not a release version of the patch. So no need to be disappointed at this stage.

I going to reserve my judgement until the FINAL release version of this patch comes out.

I hope Blacksix is right when he says that the grass, trees and clouds will be optimized in nine days time. I thought this is what they had been working on for the last 7 months and it was this that was causing the FPS issues. As it is I still get stutters near the ground same as before so i'm a little confused as to what it is they have fixed.

I would also like to know why they said last week that they wanted the patch to be right before releasing it this time? This patch was about fixing the FPS and they release it when the Grass, Trees and clouds still cause horrible stutters? I also noticed that there was no mention in the Blacksix post leading upto the patch been released, that grass/trees.. etc were still problem areas in this game. I wonder just how much of this game is still broken.

I think the best thing 1C can do is convert everything in IL2:1946 to the new Graphics engine and it'll be job done ;)

Very true indeed, mainly because whatever they do it is sub standard.

All these months saying we wont release anything until its perfect and restores the community faith in the game.. and what do we get. An alpha patch. I think the only reason it is called alpha patch is they are incapable of anything else.

Alpha patch... its actually pretty funny. Looking at the history of this game from its 6 year delayed release to now its hard not to only come to one conclusion....

I know, try not to feel that way but i can no longer envisage the RC being different from the alpha/beta states we have had.
I still cant believe the whole graphics rewrite was only 276mb, maybe its only part of the re-write. Or maybe it was just pork pies again. Who knows.

All I wanted was the CTD, stutters and shimmering gone. I got nothing out of this patch. I mean if they fixed those things then we'd all realize the other problems are probably just around the corner. However, I find the patch worse than before patch.

I have thought for some time CoD is just a carrot on a stick to keep everyone trotting toward BoM.

Disagree. IL2.1 has too many limitations in FM and DM. Although IL2.2 is not perfect yet in this aspect it is a leap forward compared to IL2.1

Since I fly IL2.2 I do no longer want to fly IL2.1 as it feels too arcadish compared to IL2.2

Does everyone else still have the flashing of desktop all the time when starting game and entering/exiting the menus and stuff like that?

What`s strange is that those are the same people that have been whining for a year now.

Yeah they're all pissed off that they won't have a plane that out-turns, out-climbs, and out-speeds the Luftwaffe any more.

Anyways, 1C have stated more than once that the flight models are wrong above 7000m and that it won't be fixed until they get more of our money.

Case in point ^^

+1...even if I become to turn pessimist :(

Roger that which leads me to belive it has more to do with thier PC than CoD

The truth is this. Made last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBsFk...feature=relmfu

Anything else better? I think not.


Keep up thje excellent work Developers:grin:

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Seems a bit backwards to me. If they expect more money then releasing CLoD in such a state would have a rather adverse effect on that idea.

I for one, won't be purchasing BoM, at least not until it has been out for several months and has been scrutinized by the community, or they get CLoD working as intended.

Whiskey

Ace, even though i don't want to, i'm becoming increasingly despondent now myself.

At some point potential has to be realised into actuality.

From my point of view, i could live with everything else if the fm's were good, but they seem to be going backwards

Fair point, but how is it that 1C can't write software that runs equally well on recommended spec machines? Lots of other developers manage it quite well.

Beta patch it may be, but unfortunately it appears for most to be a step backwards. I am having more CTD now than I was was pre patch.

Don't get me wrong.. it is depressing that more of these folks can not get the CoD to work with thier systems.. That means less targets online which is bad for all of us.

But stop and remember.. This is a alpha/beta patch that 1C themselfs admited day one has issues (disabled feature) and they released it with the sole purpose of getting feedback from all the users to help them nail down the bugs faster! You know that thing alot of the whiners have been whining for.. And now they got thier chance to be part of the solution and all they way to do is sit back and pretend they didn't hear/read the part about this being an alpha/beta patch and want to pass judgement as if this was the final patch and 1C guarnteed that everything was fixxed!

In short..

What part of alpha/beta patch do these people not understand?

If you don't want to help out by reporting bugs.. than don't DL alpha/beta patches and WAIT for the FINAL patch

IT IS THAT SIMPLE!!

Remember this post.. a few years from now.. when you ask yourself why no one is making games (flight sims) for PCs anymore and the only games (flight sims) you can by are for the X-Box and are dumbed down for the X-Box masses

Because it is attitudes like that which will make that day come sooner than later

Agreed BUT the competition will also know how hard it is to get up to the high bar and they may leave things short but working which we the consumers may have to decide on.
You can have a sim of less quality working or wait for Clod which may be a while yet.
Graphics will improve in time as advances are made but will the research into accuracy follow or will they settle for arcade sell = high numbers.

I'm also trying to preserve judgment until the final release version of the patch is out but here it is, pop-up clouds, a myriad of new graphical bugs, FM fixes that are not really fixed (G.50 over 3000 meters is still a brick with decreasing performance), a.i fixes that are not really fixed (wingmen still doing yarn old seppuku) just to mention a few I've noticed myself.

I still have hope the final version will be better. Still though:
"Clouds cause constant FPS drop; grass and trees cause hick-ups. A few extra days of work for this, a few days for grass, few days for clouds, we felt that we could start open testing the patch without waiting for these changes."

After over half a year waiting for this, those words just makes me go http://somj.org/images/smilies/ROTFLMAO.gif

I don't believe that those are the only choices.

It's clear to those of us who retain objective viewpoints that the sim has been bungled on a massive scale (and no, Tagert, I'm not crying because I don't realize this is a beta patch).

Well you should see how many times that has been said about IL2 Sturmovik in the past. It seems simple but obviously is not. Knowing the exact way the game code reacts to FM changes is the key to understanding why they never can get it right. Despite all the graphs and other data available.

I can assure you that in DM/FM field it will go back and forth if the sim keeps going.

That is ever questionable.

I don`t think that anyone that knows something about Soviet planes would deny that most of them have been modeled in IL2 in the more say "optimistic" way. Soviet airforce didn`t lose hundrets of aircraft just to inexperienced pilots, and that is what IL2 makes you think.
Proves that the Russian market has a big unfluence on what Oleg did to the FM.

Translating that for other markets, I think that in some more popular MMO arcade sims the P-51, the Spitfire and the FW190 are bound to be made by according to certain "selling" points : easy controls, superior performance to most opponents, no construction related faults.

Well that's a fact, those debates will never end and most sane people of the fan base ignores them, still it would be nice if the devs could -over a year after release- get the basics done, e.g working a.i commands down. I'm primarily an offliner and that there -not performance issues or CTD's mind you- is one of my biggest gripes with this game.

Maybe you should only speak for yourself. Because if you want another monthly ban then I`ll help you regaining it.

Agreed 100%

Aaah, Ace, still the undisputed master of quotes I see. I bow to you sir.:)

lol :grin::grin:

Exactally!

It is sad that Tree feels the need to ignore the fact that some people experiences differ from his.

Because the 'truth' is some people are experiencing big improvements!

But Tree can never acknowledge that simple truth because in doing so his purpose in life would be null n void.

All in all this patch with it's mixed bag of results is to be expected from an alpha/beta patch that was release by the devs with the sole purpose of working with customers that 'ARE' experiencing problems so they can find and fix those problem quicker..

Yet Tree and his followers conveniently ignore that simple truth and act as if this was the 'FINAL' patch release and that 1C promised everything was fixed..

It is times like these I really feel for the devs at 1C..

Talk about a loose loose situation.

Isn't that what everyone was told when they first released this game? I don't think that washes anymore with anyone.

According to poll results, 50% have seen the same or worse performance.

It washes just fine.. Because if it was a bug in CoD that caused the errors 'SOME' are seeing then 'EVERYONE' would be experancing the same problems. But not 'EVERYONE' is experancing the same problems, therefore there is some 'SPECIFIC' about those peooples PCs that in conjunction with CoD is causing the problem! That is why the devs decided to release this alpha/beta patch to get feedback (logs and dump files) from those people who are having problems in the hopes that they can change something in CoD to account for those issues those PCs are having

So what part of alpha/beta patch are you still confused about?

According to this poll about 50% are getting better performance....

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=31780&page=6

I never read anywhere where the Devs said they were releasing it for these reasons. Infact just last week I saw a post from Blacksix that stated they wouldn't release a patch until it did what it was supposed to do which in this case was double the FPS.

lol, oh and its 'experiencing'

Now that's definitely ultra cheap to attack somebody on his or her mastery of the very complicated and not very consistant spelling of the English language particularly if this person is not a native speaker. Very cheap indeed.

Can you point me to this post? I thought that the patch was supposed to fix mainly the CTDs, the particles murdering the fps, micro freezes and some other graphical artifacts (ie the horizon bug). At the same time there have been information posted that fps has gone up. But where you read that the patch raises fps by 50% I don`t know. Maybe you need to reread the release notes. So far it states :

which is IMO an estimation and certainly not a promise for a alpha patch. I`d be also more careful about judging everything posted by users on this since some even are having problems with applying the alpha files or do not know if they are really experiencing a different game version.

That's not how rendering bugs work. It's not a problem with the user's PC. It's a problem with the renderer not working well on the user's PC. That means there's a problem with the patch.

For example I get better performance out of this patch, and the game runs much smoother for me (though it crashed 4 times before I could even get into the game :rolleyes: ). My squadmate however, had a crash-to-desktop after about 30 minutes of flying.

Does that mean it's his problem? No, it means it's 1C's problem.

It IS a bug in CoD. A bug that only seems to affect certain hardware configurations.

Completely rewritten render pipeline (link)

That is the main reason.

As to why it performs so bad on your videocard... no idea. Since this beta patch makes the game behave differently in so many areas, I would try resetting the config ini and any specific videocard game profile, if you are using any. IMHO it's worth a shot. Or roll back to the current version and wait for the next patch.

@carguy - You already saw it here>>

>>Most recommended-spec machine will see a roughly double average FPS and a significant reduction in the micro-freezes that had previously plagued the game.<<

Most Pc's? Well my system is much more then the recommended spec and I don't see it. My FPS is more or less the same as it's always been with micro-freezes. But I know people will say it's my Pc and that I'm in the 1% of computers that it's not working for. I really want this game to work as much as anyone else and can only hope the final patch brings some good news.

This sums it up! I want to play this game and have fun, but it seems like that might not ever happen. Most of us have been patient waiting for this fix, but really it seems to be in worse shape 7 months later.

Is what I am saying/said.. Glad to see you agree

So what part of alpha/beta patch are you still confused about?

It is simple

By DL the alpha/beta patch you are willing to be part of the solution..

The way it works.. If you encounter a problem, send in your log files and your dump files like requested..

If your not able to do that without flying off the handle and acting surprised that a alpha/beta patch has issue..

Than I highly recommend you uninstall the alpha/beta patch and wait for the final release patch..

SAVVY?

Well I can tell you what part I'm confused about. When does the alpha/beta patch actually become the final release patch? This time round? The next time? Or maybe the time after that? Is there ever going to be an ending and a finished game?

All right maybe I misread what you wrote.

What kills me is the ammout of work, screenshots etc they were posting of the sequal. Thats what I really think they were working on it wasnt till people said they would not buy the sequal that they started posting more updates about COD.

There is no way what they gave us saturday was 7 months of work. they worked 6 months 2 weeks on the sequal and mabye 2 weeks on COD.

And those that dont like the complaints to bad, everyone on this fourm bought this game and is entitled to there opinions, even if they dont agree with the fan boys. its been a year and a half, time for some results, everytime I see sequal stuff with the game in its current state it pisses me off.

1. it's a ALPHA patch, so please wait for the retail version before going ballistic

2. the truth, yes cod is in bad shape and will remain so, partly because of bad treatments during his infancy, the team is running out of fuel and BoM is the only way to save the company.

3. accept it or leave, no one is happy with it but it's getting utterly tiresome to hear a constant whining, there is snot all over the place.

1C makes many other games dont give me that save the company crap.

I see the unfortunate 'turth' is still out there. ;)

Ironic isn't it. I point out an error, the person responsible claims to have fixed it, but the 'bug' remains unrectified... :rolleyes:

ahh ahha nice mon

You know, I wasn't going to say anything but...
All that video does is prove that the Rome Total War soundtrack was awesome.
If all we wanted to do was make movies then sure it would be great.
Wheres the interlude for the launcher crash?

Sorry but this is just not correct, take for example the fact that currently DX9 is not working in this beta, that is not the PC owners fault it is the Devs fault, same goes for most of the long term bugs, they are not PC issues they are bugs, as the game tells people it will work on certain PC types, if this was not the case why are the devs rewriting most of the graphics engine?

I'm not actually complaining about the beta as I will wait for it to go to the final version before giving up on CoD until the next patch, it is just that your comments are incorrect and misleading.

You know, with all the ranting etc going on here on these boards, I'd love to see some of the people try to play an MMO, expecially one made by Funcom :P

+1 :grin:

Not everything in IL2 1946 was bad, but CLOD is more than one year after release still a desaster. Reading the "known issues" in the changelog and the BETA PATCH v1.06.17582--Bug thread I lose confidence that they are on top of things. Instead of fighting so many battles at the same time they better return to the roots prior to lose the war.

Thxs to the op. Unfortunately I stopped reading when usual few started the slanging matches between them selves. Grow up guys.

+ 1

1. It says the game will run on certain PC types

2. It is an Alpha patch, not a Beta patch

...

Sorry? Attitudes like mine will bring about the fall of WWII flight sims on the PC? If that's all it's going to take, then going by what has already been written in 50% of threads on this forum, the genre is doomed already.

I asked a question, a valid one. I think Cliffs of Dover is a brilliant simulator, all I'm saying is it could be so much more if the damn thing worked on the majority of systems. Since release of this 'patch' I have sent 6 CTD reports. I had the same amount of CTDs over a 3 month period previous to the patch. I will continue to send any info the dev team need, so hopefully, one day, I enjoy this sim as it was meant to be.

So, tell me again. Is this evidence of me having a hardware problem (and an attitude problem..) ?

You guys who lost all critical thinking are just.... it is a waste of time to talk with you.

now customers are getting alpha patch, in first it was patch - epic fail, then two or three BETA patch - epic fail, and now it is ALPHA patch. Next one, if any, will be beta version of ALPHA patch. Afterwards, it will be alpha version of ALPHA patch... welll next-gen sim brings also next-gen kind of patches... The flight sim history in the making!

I have never ever in whole game industry's history saw such mess... In my 20 years of gaming I never saw so many new "terms", new "approaches", new "BS"... I believe that Steam community will never witness worse game than this EVER.

Get used to it. You all were transformed from customers to alpha testers for next sequel. Maybe Luthier should make you special status here, so we all see directly if you are tester, and later they can give you next sequel with discount, or map of Moscow and Luthier's poster with signature for free.

ACE_OF_ACES - you are fun to read, really... Fanatical members of this community are fewer and fewer... You will be the last one, for sure...

Not so funny is how few members here are twisting the meanings of words just to manipulate with people and put some lipstick on the pig, right?

edit. btw. I was shorting banks before the collapse of finance sector in USA and people in discussions were in same state of denial like some of you here... after one year of being told BS, less and less keep this "stock"... of course you are free to believe that same people in charge who caused this mess will find the solution and everything will be fine. Majority just gave up looooong time ago.

Coming from a person of your attitude, it is a compliment, thank you.

Last time I read there was a vocal minority here that wanted the patch, even the alpha version of it. They got it allright. They found another reasons to complain too.

TBH I don`t remember when was the last time I saw such a mess too. But I`m not acting as if it was the end of the world. My advice if you can`t wrap your head around that would be : don`t.

And if this sim ever makes something it was meant to be from the start, you will be thanking those who provided bug reports and constructive critics to help. Because I have yet to understand why you insist on staying here and complaining instead of doing something better with your time.


It would be good if you provided some examples of that.

Comparing collapse of finance sector to a video game development. Nice one. Why don`t you just stick to the "buying a new car" analogy since you repeated it so many times that you have to get it right eventually.

For my opinion this is a dead project. After saturday i give it up. This game after so many months is still too crude and horrible to hope in somenthing more.

I would like only to know what has gone wrong with Storm of War, because it did look much better than this r*****h.
http://c3333424.r24.cf0.rackcdn.com/...85_upscale.jpg

CoD will not be the new serie for the IL2 community, this for sure.

We'll see in the next two years with Moscow.

I will react only to your last reply...

I am not comparing collapse of finance sector and video game dev... I am comparing state of denial of FEW people here, who act on behalf of devs and whole community (cuz "dectractors" are not part of community) and put themselves in the position to judge whats good and whats wrong (for this game, combat sim world, video game industry etc...).

Beta patch is alpha patch. What devs really wanted from their customers - enjoy their game by playing it or to become their alphatesters?

Now all of you play "IL2: AT" game, where AT means ALPHA TESTING... Enjoy it, if you have nothing better to do...

P.S. Don't be angry, because people are fed up with Luthier making them fools once again...

Borderline comments are on both sides. Hard to say who is reacting to who, but that is certainly the case. It is obvious that there are quite a few ppl that always see the CloD glass half empty and try to impose their views on others (such are also comments accusing others of being in denial). Other people find this a reason to post something positive about the situation.

IMO whatever you are - a negative or positive person - you are part of this community. Even those who did not buy the game yet, but are lurking to find it in a fixed state.

TBH I do not know why devs released it. They said multiple times before that they want to release the ready version. Why the shift of decisions it is not up to me to answer this. Maybe as BlackSix put it, they want to widen the testing crowd. My guess is they are unable to tell by themselves if the patch is ready or not. Anyway, if I had time to test it , I would. Out of pure will to help. I don`t see nothing wrong with that.

Well, I took my part in testing RCs back in the IL2 days when it was simple enough. Since Steam entered the scene, I don`t really think it is worth the effort and risking of being banned. Although I can see other ppl are willing to help. There were many requests for releasing the beta patch.

What constructive input can come from people being fed up about it?

pre patch,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...itprepatch.jpg

post patch,

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ckpitpatch.jpg

Guys, if you read the patch notes the purpose of this alpha-release is not to make our flying more comfortable or enjoyable but to collect crash-logs and crash-dump files. CTDs of different nature (and specific to user hardware) are hunted and fixed one-by-one as goes from naryv's comment @sukhoi.ru I refer to here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31835

They reworked the core of the engine (multi-threading, etc.) that took probably 4-5 months and only now they will start fixing bugs with our feedback. Disappointing ATM because of a long wait but still very promising.

Send crash-reports and logs, post issues at bugtracker and vote for them. It will take time to fix them but the progress is visible if you read the link above.

Please vote to get high-res cockpits back here http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/246

now I've got it.... we talk about BETA PATCH all the time, just this release was ALPHA version of future BETA PATCH!!!

finally understood... thanks, mate!

Wow, that really is a big difference. The textures are very soft in comparison!

I'm just checking out the on the lettering on the dials and also the top of the control column. That's a big difference in definition!

It seems that to increase the frame-rate they have decided to remove all the beauty, like clouds, grass, textures....so removing 50% of the items it came with should increase the frame-rate by 50%?

Not the best way of fixing it surely?

MP

(Still living in hope!)

I've myself a positive and constructive feedback after this patch. We are not so stupid Luthier, you can jokes us in this bad way. Give it up guys......

You're working on Moscow, period. CoD has ben dropped, or cancelled in your minds.

This would be more honest than persist to provide us this shame. After 13 months, what you guys have show us now doesn't have anymore any sort of explanations and/or excuses.

Good luck for Moscow.

Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate! :evil: .... ;)

CloD engine = BoM engine

Please vote to get high-res cockpits back here http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/246

voted.

They have found many reasons to complain because they have been told week in and week out what has supposed to of been fixed in terms of bugs. Just before the release of the patch Blacksix, reported a small list of bugs that still remained. However, we still got exited just to read that the FPS had double for most Pc's and that the CTD had almost been eliminated. Now all of a sudden we find we are beta/alpha testers again because the Devs have handed use a patch that hasn't really fixed the CTD, or doubled Fps. Please don't tell me it's because of a vocal minority they released the patch when it was only the other week that Blacksix said they wouldn't release a patch until it did what it said on the tin. They have released it because they realize now they need more testers to find the bugs, it's nothing to do with anyone demanding the patch. Maybe they should have released it sooner and they would have had the bug report quicker if anything.

Many weeks of thinking this is getting fixed and that is getting fix, judging by the reports coming out. Then we find out these things are the same and even worse for many when the patch finally arrives. I wonder why people moan I really do.

This post would be more useful in the bugs thread than in a Trolling thread fruitbat. ;-)



BTW, for the "audience", they did not remove the textures to improve the performance, how this can even be true if the textures are there in the 70 FOV view ?

The textures still there even in the 90 FOV, if you use the offset button and move forward the mouse they will be visible :

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7708/534s.jpg

The problem its just that the range of the new texture manager is to short in cockpit view while you are using the 90 FOV.

This make me wonder even if our "beloved audience" have played the game or just go here to throw his "invaluable comments".

Done Buchon;)

both images got a bit purple coloring, the 2nd lost its sharpness

This is the only fact that makes me still believe in CLOD. ;)

Still confused?

Allow me to make an analogy here..

What your asking them to do is tell us now, how lost their car keys are before they found their car keys

Problem is you don't know how lost your car keys are until you find your car keys

For example..

The last thing we want the programer to do is spend 'time' donig a write up AFTER he finds his keys telling us, in great detail, about all the places he looked for his keys before he found his keys! What we do want the programer to do is move onto the next bug as soon as he finds his keys

Long story short, it will be done when it is done.

now guys.. really.. had this patch left you the impression that it was in an "almost ready to release" state for a few weeks?!!

because for me, those words are simply lies, considering the state of the patch.

I'm sorry, but this is the hard truth, which actually hurts more than the state of the patch itself. because it means there's no trust to be put anymore in the words of the developers :(

PS: I've posted this in some other thread, but actually it fits better in here

And above is a perfect example of someone that is part of the problem.

Calling the devs liars because you don't understand software development is not helping the situation. Download the alpha/beta patch, run it, when you encounter an error, send in the log and dump files. It is that easy! If you are not capable of doing that without having a hissyfit break down, than wait for the final patch.

This is an ALPHA patch.

Ah yes, finally something new from the user.


NOT:rolleyes:

Meh, again I take the patience-approach. I don't care how long it takes for the patch to come out, as long as it fixes some of the issues. Until then, I'll quietly test it and report to 1C any issues I have.

I'm amazed by the behavior of some people here, and in the sometimes dire lack of reading-comprehension. Instead of railing on the devs like a cracked record, accept that it is what it currently is, and either join in on the testing to better the product, or clap that gob shut.

What you talk about here is something you yourself have lost. You are the one responsible for losing your keys. I am talking about purchasing a product and wanting to know when the product I purchased will be fixed? .

I purchase a car and find a fault with it. I take it to the garage i bought it from and they tell me they will repair it within a week or so. A week later I am one happy customer because I will have the car back and rightly so they have fixed it. Now if they told me they will fix it, but that it was going to be upto a year later and beyond, then I would be pretty peed off. The other thing to look at is if this was a car and was a wide spread fault the manufacturer would recall them all.