"We like the offline AI. It's realistically dumb."
 

Ok...I'm thrilled with the prospect of getting this patch. THRILLED. And I am not wining or finding fault before even giving the updated game a try. But Luthier's comment on the offline AI gave me pause. I'm a 100 percent SP/offline player. When I fly a mission, get on the enemy's six and fire a burst, the plane starts to spastically waggle its wings, goes into multiple diving spins, turns upside down and recovers about 20 feet over the water. All these maneuvers are not only unrealistic but impossible. Are others seeing this? I'm wondering if something is wrong with my install. If this is the norm than I can't imagine Luthier stating that he likes the offline AI. I know this subject has been covered ad nauseam but if you're seeing what I am at least I'll know it's not just my computer.

Thanks

I think he is referring to how it acts in offline not in quick missions. In quick missions it is bugged and they dont engage. If you have a proper dogfight using AI sliders in FMB or a mission and it decides to engage it is far better.

They need to fix the AI deciding to ignore you and continue on the waypoint pathing but that is a different issue to how the AI behaves in actual fights (when it works) I think.

I'm with you... I hate how they just buzz off alot, and also how they do those 'Right said Fred' spins like on a catwalk

Yup, that's the case. You gotta tweak the a.i the way you want it, don't use the presets. I'm gonna go ahead and refer you guys to the following very informative thread: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3543201
READ IT ALL

Thanks guys. I'm not that sophisticated or tech savvy so when I have 15 minutes to play CloD (which I haven’t done for the last six months), I am not online or building my own missions...just QMB "Axis Advantage" stuff. This is where I'm seeing the nutty AI.

Sorry to hear that Smink1701 because in the quick missions the a.i are using the presets, that's why you are having a crappy experience. Think I read somewhere that you can edit the quick mission files...maybe someone else could help out with that. I create my own missions so I customize the a.i myself. It's not so difficult, try to learn the FMB basics and you can create all sorts of nice missions. Here's the link to the FMB for "dummies" guide:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3423371

and here are a few snaps from a series of missions I'm building, starring the Corpo Aereo Italiano:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...7998C33529771/

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...485A7B184F7FE/

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...6B526D724F688/

.I get the ridiculous barrel roll rubbish as well-

Thanks Addman.

Ive been doing quite a bit of mission making lately. Impretty sure its down to the ... button next to skill. The slider marked advanced flying is the culprit. Tone them down but dont be afraid to give them max basic flying skill.

Ive not extensively tested this but thats my experience.

S!

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...er82/skill.jpg

Theres a nice little description if you hold the cursor of each one. Vision is how far they can see which is effected by awareness, and as long as they are not on radio silence, they will report enemy aircraft via the HUD/radar/radio man voice.

For example I find the AI bombers best when you set these sliders in a C shape.

I experience the same phenomenon as well. The barrel rolls is the most annoying in my opinion, since an AI 109 has a faster roll rate than a player in a Spitfire.

If this is an easy fix, and the developers want a big, inviting tent to get as many new users as possible, why don't they just adjust their own slider thingies and fix the "stunt pilots on acid and Red Bull" problem???:grin:

Quick missions can be edited, saved to Single missions and then flown from Single Missions or from FMB itself (file menu).

As for the bugs with barrel rolls and other please report them in bugtracker with a video illustration. It seems to me Luthier did not understand which issues with AI were meant because they paid attention to other AI issues recently which they were fixing. I do not think Luthier flies Quick Missions.

I think high Advanced Flying skills must be included into the game to represent exceptionally experienced aces. It is mission designers' task to set its level according to a mission. Maybe they were set incorrectly for QMB or set very high on purpose to prevent players from getting bored with AI in several months of everyday flying. If you think it is not correct, report it please.

Thanks!...to be honest I always just set them to average, I will definitely try this.

guys look at this thread if you haven't seen it, helps alot,

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3543201

Yes, that post is from Heinkill, I know him from his offline missions where he does actually create missions with great dogfights. Www.Bobgamehub.blogspot.com for those. But he also says on his blog 'The 1C devs will never admit their basic dogfighting AI is flawed. Because they don't believe it is. They can set it up in fmb to do a pretty good job, so players should also be able to. But their benchmark is their own flawed AI from IL2, which Oleg used to claim was the 'best of any flight sim'. Don't expect 1C to fix this, as they do not accept it is broken.'

The Bf 109 has a faster roll rate than the Spit but .... the AI can keep the roll rate even when flying Bf 110, bombers and even damaged bombers. And the AI pilots can achieve higher roll rate than human controlled planes. That's what is ridiculous. Obviously the AI uses a different FM (and DM) than what is available to us. I'd love to see AI pilots obey some basic physics laws.

Dumb the 110 pilots advanced flying down to 4 and that wont happen...

Thanks for the answer. I'd like to see the AI to use the same FM and DM as we do tho. Dumbing a different parameter to compensate is kinda a dirty trick.

Thanks Addman and JG27.Farber, I fired up the fmb last night and I can confirm that these tweaks work.

Had a lot of fun actually with 2 reworked quick missions with extra aircraft and tweaked AI. There really is a lot of variation available in AI pilot behaviour - I can see why Luthier could make that statement about them liking what is there already. (In the long-term they do need to address the issue of higher settings on the Advanced Flying slider causing the wild F16 rolls, but for now this works, and allows some of the quality underneath to come through)

It's a little infuriating though to wait for more than a year before finding a very simple answer to one of the things that was really putting me off the game. Highlights the poor (appalling?) state of documentation atm.

I would encourage anyone who is interested to check out the links and info in this thread and get familiar with the fmb. I had done a lot of my own missions in old il-2 so it was fairly easy.

Thanks again.

It's proving a good week for the game - the new nVidia beta has helped, this tweak sorts another issue and soon the patch...oh yes!

Yes smink1701, i am an offline player too and i have made the same experience when i was chasing Blenheims in my 109.

I strongly agree...thanks for the tips guys on the AI settings, its like a whole new game now for off-line.

Then, couldnt somebody fix the quick missions and post them to the devs to include them into the next patch? Quick missions will be very important as everybody new to the sim will first try out the quick missions and then will be disappointed.. I lost a year or so on IL2 classic uninstalling it over and over because i hated the QM and didnt know about its online possibilities..

Greetz, Allons!

The devs could fix them themselves in about 5 minutes....! Hopefully they will.

(that is they could fix them by tweaking the Advanced Flying settings downwards in 5 mins. Long-term (or even in the patch) I hope (and expect, no make that DEMAND!) that they re-do the high-setting Advanced Flying AI itself to stop the crazy rolling. Then we can all use it as intended)

Also, with the redone GUI coming in BOM I expect the Quick Mission interface will be much improved. Something like a tweaked version of il-2 QMB would be nice(r).

Yes there are allot of things we deem "broken" or wrong with the game but are actually not but seem so due to the poor explination of even simple things in this sim.

Glad I could help.

S!

Please post it into the bugtracker. Otherwise it may never happen. Luthier does not read all threads here. http://www.il2bugtracker.com/projects/cod/issues

Agree, documentation would've gone a long way preventing long and often fruitless discussions, still there'd be some people asking you to turn the pages of the manual for them and read loud to them in a David Attenborough voice how to do things.:rolleyes:

Hey guys!

Just tried this out, unknowingly of how much of a difference it makes.

AI now catches you completely off guard with tracers screaming past your canopy. Very much better aiming and saving ammunition. Also the F-16 snap rolls seem less frequent with a low advanced manouver setting. That's good :) Actually, the game just got a fresh breath of air now :)

:-P:-P

Also guys Bombers need high basic flying, very low advanced... Or they start twitching and wierd stuff. Putting their awareness to nothing might also help.

One of the most helpful threads in a long time, tweaked these AI skill parameters in a fmb mission and it plays more like I was originally expecting, thanks for the links to heinkill's guide. Most of the Blenhein's circus
antics are now curtailed :)

Dr. Strangelove: "Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH? "





Yeah, 1C et al why not tell the players about this feature ???

Thanks to the clever people who found out nevertheless.

Only one year of my life lost forever :cool:

The way I understand the very poor AI in the COD Quick Missions (here I and most new players start out) is that the Developers disigned/implemented the Quick Mission. Then Heinkill through trial and error found a method in the Mission Builder to make the AI better so if you want better AI you have do your own missions or use Heinkill's missions.

If my understanding is correct, why did the developer permitted us to go one year without getting the AI message sorted?

I can only believe that the developers did not understand or believe the problem/complaints about the AI.

Yes, I just PM'd him on SimHq to ask why he doesn't post here! He is one of the good sources. He said, "i got banned a year ago from 1C forum for something very inoffensive I said about the game, so I haven't been back. But if people want my missions, dummy guides or campaig walkthroughs for CoD they can just go to www.bobgamehub.blogspot.com , my blog, or here at SimHq. Glad to hear others find them useful".

I guess the forum rules here do scare some people off...

PS

"realistically dumb."


hmm what does this even mean ???

unless they are referring to the people within the community who dont understand the nature of a BETA patch....

Not every pilot in the battle of Britain was an ace. With all the different sliders it is possible for "realistic dumb" behaviour- eg not noticing until too late etc.

I've been trying to get FMB working with limited success. I checked out the links provided in this thread (thanks BTW), but since I've never built a mission before find it a bit challenging. I hope the developers come thru with some simple tweaks. Seems a shame that the only way to get accurate AI is to have to build the mission your self.

Try this:

Very easy:

select extras/select FMB/select "file" at the top tool bar/choose "load map"/select "English channel-1940"/select "view" at the top tool bar/select "object browser"/choose your aircraft/holding left mouse down and holding shift key down, draw a square around an airfield, you could use the same one as ATAG/hold left mouse down and Ctrl key down on the runway to place your aircraft/do that again at the other end of the runway/ select "waypoint" in the object browser/choose "previous" and set that to takeoff...thats it your done for now, take off!:grin:.....make sure take off and landings is set in your difficulties settings or it will be an airstart. And be sure to put a check in the "player" box
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...462#post405462

Thanks SB. When I have a second I'll give it a shot.:grin:

Once again HK to the rescue...

http://bobgamehub.blogspot.com/2011/...n-builder.html

Dummies Guide on how to adjust and modify the quick missions

PS

Having any lingering problems now with FMB

Very probably Buddye. The language and maybe other factors could be the cause, but I reckon that this forum is not a source of information for them. Luthier's comments a few days ago confirms that he is totally unaware.

Maybe you want to check the IL2 Bugtracker and, if you find it good; you could apport a wealth of valuable information directly to where they read/search. I cannot think of anyone better entitled than you for reporting AI issues, and I for one would be glad to have you collaborating there, and I am sure that many others share my opinion.
S!

The thing that I wonder is why they didn't do a better job of testing the QM's and SM's. It seems like they would have clearly seen the absurd AI flight characteristics and determined that they need to turn down the Advanced Flying slider. A very simple way to fix an immersion killer.

Well, they are 15 guys. Probably they tested the FMB and thought all is ok.
We are hundreds, tested the QM and thought: all is porked.

They surely are wondering the same questions about us :grin:.

As a side note, you can open the canned missions and adjust the AI properties and save

My theory, the QMB (quick mission builder) is heavily intertwined with the GUI (graphical user interface) of CloD just as it was in il-2 46. Problem is, the GUI of CloD was a rush job, first pics of the GUI was shortly before release plus luthier is now saying they will totally re-do the GUI for BoM. The GUI in CloD is basically a placeholder and offers very little flexibility in handling different components of the game. I hope and I actually feel quite confident that the new GUI for BoM will be much better now that they have a set schedule they are working on and don't have to rush anything out, until then I guess we have to make our own quick missions I guess.

OK…a few questions from the FMB cement head…:!:

-In FMB I load a mission I see…Bomber Intercept, Free Hunt, London Attack, etc. All from Single Missions. I don’t see anything from QM’s like Dogfight Even, Dogfight Lower Level, Advantage Axis, etc. Where are the SM’s and can you edit and save?

-Also, when you go into FMB and see File, Edit View, what is the thread to the Aircraft Flight so you can access Properties and the AI sliders?

-If you save a SM or QM, how do you delete? I tried to right click but no dice.

-Finally, is there a way to toggle icons like in IL-2?

My thanks to anyone willing to weigh in.

I just want the AI to follow you on takeoff. Thats all.

QMB missions are stored here
Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\mission\quick

Copy them into any folder under
Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\missions\

You can delete files from the folder as any other files in Windows.

To access airgraoup properties right-click airgroup and select properties.

For icons please search for mp_dotrange command on the forums. You can enter it into the rcu file in IL-2 folder. Sorry, do not remember the syntax now. Alternatively you can make aliases to different icon settings and store them in the rcu file if you want to change settings in flight. Search for "rcu alias" for details please.

You will need to adjust their properties as seen in this thread, such things as discipline, eyesight etc:-P

:confused:Re-read my instruction post for the object viewer...with the object viewer open, left click the aircraft on the map that you want to change the AI, when you are done, right click and select "un- select"

These settings have no effect whatsoever. I would love it if they did, but even in FMB I can tweak these values all day long and the AI remain as dumb as a bag of hammers.
They will practically let you fly in formation with them if you say "pretty please".
Am I missing something? And could I ask to see a track of some truly aggressive enemy AI after such tweaks?
Thank you!
Chris

Ok...just about there. I built a mission and it shows up in the FMB Load Mission area. Once I select the mission and load it I get a map with red and blue lines, numbers, etc...the usual stuff. I'm just having some issues with right clicking on the aircraft flight. When I do so it just says "Paste from File." I'm obviously doing something wrong or I'm in the wrong place. :confused:

Left click...

Appears the QM's are under mission, not missions but are hidden files. I could not get them to show up, any way you can build your own.


Goto View, object viewer. This is for all objects. Just remember there is a difference between objects which are "alive" and that move and "Statics" that do not move. "alive" objects need at least two waypoints or you cant save your mission!


If you want to delete a mission, do so like a normal file. Docs, 1csoftclub, missions... I always creat folders for each mission so its less cluttered. However in FMB you cant see a folder in a folder in missions.

Toggle icons on/off? Good question. I dont know, try the old key for it else look in the controls.

NP! :-P


Some other things which may help you. -

You can either use Ctl + left click or click where you want it and press insert to place an object.

Hold a and left click and drag to define the battle area, set the last value to 10000 for nice big useable grid squares.

click on an object or on the map and press enter on the NUM pad to go into 3D view.

Whilst in 3D view with an object selected press the keys on the NUM pad to rotate.

You need to give bombers bombs and the appropriate fuses.

Save your work regulary, the FMB sometimes crashes but not as bad as the game.

You can test your work by adding an aircraft and and clicking the player box in its preoperties, select file, play mission. You can use the [ and ] keys for time compression.

Wether and clouds etc are under Mission Parameters, in edit I beleive.

You might want to set armies, under edit I think.


Hope this helps. :cool:

A work around is possible by choosing "save as" in the quick page generator. Then find it/make a copy to your soft club mission/open in FMB/make AI adjustment/then replace the original with your doctored version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmuDi2F60-8

Watch the AI 109 which is 'leading' the flight in this HK video. Very very aggressive and no ridiculous maneouvres. Good use of the vertical, in fact. Only AI fail was at the end where he hit the beach, but that looks like he took some AAA fire.

These fixes working for me. Like it says they csn't completely fix, but is ten times better anyway. Can't explain why it isn't working for you.

am i misunderstanding something here? because i can see folders/sub folders in fmb

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/bolox00/ss1.jpg

I just found out that if you create a folder while CloD is running, it will not be shown in FMB. If you quit CloD and restart it, it appears in the FMB...

Yes artist that is true, you must make the folders first.

Bolox, I save my missions in missions/multiplayer/dogfight/myfoldername. If I then put a folder inside my folder - it wont show up. Thats what I ment.

I've recently found that if I load a single mission (one I made myself, not from a copy of an existing cod mission) then alter it and do a 'save as' with a totally new name, it appears to save it with that name ok, but when I then go back to 'Siingle Mission' on the gui, and look down the list of missions what I see is the new mission with the same name as the original, if I repeat the process I end up with three missions all different but all with the same name - they do have the later changes I made but the names are all the same as the mission I first made them from, very odd. Going out of cod and back in doesn't change it to the correct name, but if I look in the missions folder its there listed with its new name, not a cloned name:confused:

I'm there I think and I really appreciate everyone's help in getting me here. I think I've got this working BUT, there's always a but, when I change all the skill values in group properties, save, and exit, then restart CLoD, go into FMB, load my new saved mission, left click on the aircraft and go into properties, the pilot setting is on average and all the skill values are in the middle, like I never customized. Does this just happen if you open the properties. I'm a bit paranoid that the changes I'm making aren't sticking.

Thanks X 5!!!