No coop in this game?
 

I bought this game a year ago now, but I haven't played it due to the state it was in. I have been looking forwards to the patch, but I noticed in one post someone said there was no online coop like in IL2. Please can someone tell me this is a joke and you can build your own missions and play with your friends online.

It's a joke, just take any single mission and put a spawn point on your airfield and set which planes you want to fly with your buddies, presto!

ATM you can fly COOP using this lobby http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...ht=coop+script

Check out this mission pack for instance http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...ht=coop+script

For COOP GUI to be included into the game please vote here (register and press green arrow up) http://www.il2bugtracker.com/project...ues?query_id=1

This link is a vote for a coop mode, and shows the majority's feelings towards the issue. (Ataros has already placed the link for the bugtracker "vote" above aswell).

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28429

And this.. is another discussion, which you've probably already read, but can't (or don't want to) believe ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27934

thanks for all the replies, but can you also build your own missions this way and are they as easy to build like in IL2?

I've built alot of missions for IL2:46, and I've tinkered a bit with the IL2:COD FMB, and it looks like it operates the same way, but with many extra options.

Unfortunately, I haven't even attempted online yet with all unstability issues, so I can't tell you how it runs in ClOD first hand. That last link will tell you what is missing from what you are familiar with.

Of course, like I said, just create an offline mission in the FMB where you let's say, intercept a bunch of bombers.

1. Remove your flight if you've created one.
2. Place an aircraft spawn point (in the objects menu) on your home airfield.
3. Set up the spawn point properties the way you like it, e.g how many planes allowed to spawn there, which types etc.
4. Create a server in the MP menu, load the mission and notify your buddies to hop in.

There is no COOP mode for CLOD, so there will be no online wars etc, which sadly will lead to the series death if it is not resolved IMHO.

How is this similar to an IL2:46 coop?
To me, that sounds alot like an IL2:46 dogfight map (with AI).

As much as it pains me to say so i'm in agreement with you tree on this one:)

This is just a more simple way to fly as a team if you do not want to use Banks' coop-lobby. With the lobby you can fly it in Il-2 way.

@OP
Mission creation has several differences with original Il-2. The best way to learn them is to open and study someone else's mission. If you have any difficulties please feel free to ask in the FMB section http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/forumdisplay.php?f=203

Ataros,
I can`t speak for everyone, but I`m fairly sure that Il2ers are able to accept something else than a classic IL2 style coop, as long as the end result is the same. And that is simple and fairly fast mission creation, mission scripting able to simulate dynamic fronts, mission-to-mission war-like event development and pilot career (ie. overall war stats, individual stats, squad stats, distinctions system). No super scripting required here, just simple fuel depot bombed - no fuel - tank immobile - tank unavailable for battle - battle lost - frontline moved east/west concept.

As much as I`d like to stand beside 1C on this one, there is simply no excuse not to provide this in a flight sim that is created for massive multiplayer from day one. It is that simple yet is so hard for 1C to accomplish.

I would say that CloD without COOP-like interface is like Mass Effect without single player campaign. The feature is expected, required, mandatory. The game evolves around it.

Well, not necessarily death but yes, people will lose interest eventually. Skirmishes are only a part of what went on in the old IL2 series. That is a fact and denying it only furthers the state of say "suspension" CloD is currently in.

Well they cannot script their way out of it.



I have no desire to fly CoD or create any missions as it stands, its just an icon taking up space in my task bar.

1. Waiting for correction to channel map to fix it for CooP mode.
2. Waiting for a CooP GUI.
3. Waiting for correction to Bombers online massed flights lag bug.
4. And a loads of other stuff blah blah blah.....................

Roll out the Med theatre whilst were at it :)

@ carguy_
I agree. It was me who added links to Alpha's posts to the coop bugreport with a few comments in line with yours :) http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/51 I do not see your votes btw ;)

BTW have a look at Banks' update on DCE http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...&postcount=108

http://code.google.com/p/il2dce/wiki..._Specification

We can get a coop mode together with the war engine inside it one day. It is a pity the community is so small yet and only a couple of C# developers are working on 3rd-party projects like this one.

:lol:

There's absolutely no need of the same exactly old coop mode to make an online war. With the scripts you can make whatever you want with a mission, including a coop-like mission (without the same old coop menu, obviosuly, but the style of the mission is the same) or online wars way better than all that we've had untill now.

Please stop fooling people.

Isn't Coop in Lobby and Dogfights in Client, in Multiplayer?

So where are they? where are the COOP? where are the online wars?

Where were the online wars in the beginning of IL2? That there are no online wars right now doesn't mean that they can't be made without the old coop system.

Takes time to do something like that with a new system. Aside from that, there's a little problem that prevents a lot of people from playing long missions online, so I suppose there's no point in making a online war untill the launcher problem have been solved.

Anyway, can you tell me anything essential to make a online war that's impossible to make in CoD with scripts?

Most of the stuff that made the old il2 so successful was made by fans and not MG.

With CoD it will be the same, as soon as crash-free flying is possible some fans will find new ways to realize the good stuff.

It would certainly be easier with the old style gui, but maybe it is not so easy to create something like that with the new engine?

So maybe new ways have to be found.

All the online wars ive ever played used the COOP system, until we get a intuitive easy to use front and back end to the COOP, wars wont happen. IMO

All the wars i've ever fought was sword in hand, until we get an intuitive easy to sharp edge in those "rifles", wars wont happen :rolleyes:

More seriously... What's the point of get the exact same old coop system to make the exact same online wars that we all played in IL2? Personally, I'd like to evolve an play better and more realistic online wars in the future.

IMO, old coop system is no longer needed.

As long as you buy it that is all that matters. Thanks for supporting my favorite genre.

We want just the front and back end...we want the new bells and whistles of CLOD as well.

Imagine a SEOW mission that doesn't run 1 or 2 missions but 24/7. Right now your squadron is on a boring convoy patrol mission where nothing happens. Radar detects a massive bomber build-up over Calais. The mission planer has a webinterface (maybe on his mobil phone) where he sees the intelligence information in real-time and can send up new squadrons and change the waypoints of squadrons that are already in the air. There is also an AI mission planer if no human mission planer is available. The red mission planer changes the waypoints of your squadron, your receive a R/T message to fly to Dover to intercept them.
While on your way to Dover a squadron mate joins, he was late because of a traffic jam. He switchs into one of the AI aircraft of your squadron, just in time before the massive bomber formation is spotted.
Your squadron attacks the fighter cover. In the meantime the mission planer has scrambled a Hurricane squadron from Hawkinge to take care of the bombers. ...

It sounds great Banks, and it can have its place but for people who just want to meet up for a hour and play a war COOP its not the solution.

The way the new Dogfight Muliplay works is realy good in the game now , however what is needed for coops is the GUI for the players to host ,join ,recieve briefings,arm and launch in a quick and easy to understand way & to recieve the outcome/scores etc when the server ends the mission.In the old 1946 Coop gui the developers had made a pretty good job of it.
Not only does it`s user friendlyness speed up game play but also keeps the flow of missions running so the host can keep a group of players taking part mission after mission as happens in hyperlobby at present.
I have took part in Coops run in Dogfight servers and they have been fun but to get everybody organised and up & flying the old Coop mode cannot be beat :eek:
I have no doubt that the new features in the FMB itself will lead to far more inventive Coops for online multiplayer use.
The new script by 41sqn Banks is a creative work around ,(many thanks).
Repeating previous posts the poll here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28429
Showed 126 here on the forums would like to see something similar to the old GUI .I have put in a request for this feature here for the devs to see:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/51 please register and vote.

Yes, Banks. You may believe me when I say that majority of VEF/IOW/BW/IL2War/AirfirceWar pilots dreamed of the similar things back in say 2006. So far the only thing that seems to be certain is that we might finally have manned ground units on a massive France-England map. It is hard to believe the things you wrote coming true when a seemingly simple coop system has a hard time being recreated in the next game.

But what Robtek said is very true. Online wars weren`t there from the start. Bellum War I think was official first in what?2004?And that was just the start, with VEF taking place also. Those wars were nothing like VEF2/IOW/AirforceWar which were evolutions of the first of their type.

That is why I think we should be pressing 1C on the issue generally, though just reminding them something they JUST MIGHT have forgotten.Hence still at least a few reasons to stay optimistic.

the guys around Murdock ( VEF) and Adi_Galland (IOW)were faster than remembered, heres some talk about these onlinewars from 2002 ;)
http://www.battle-fields.com/commsce...n-2-Online-War

yes, they were made by the community, they improved a lot during their running times (i can remenber the crude reportsystem in the first IOW where you had to stay in game till debriefing screen to give your results to the host manually via chat :D ).
Future will tell what will happen to this series...

This is just not the case. I don't see where people think this. Eventually, honestly Ghost Skies ( www.ghostskies.com ) plans to transition over (after there's more aircraft and a couple of expansions).

There is no Coop in the customary sense ala IL2, with the GUI, BUT the game has inherent ability to be a coop game, and the scripting within the game is very powerful, allowing for custom servers and controllers.

I can create a Coop mission in FMB in about 20 minutes. Yes, the planes spawn instead of are already there, but what matters is you have the ability to be coop already.

If anything, CLOD 'COOP' is better than IL2 ever was.

So .................. you have a working CooP mission on the Channel Map, like the other maps in CoD that work as a CooP, without scripting it to make it work as a CooP ?

As far as I know you are unable to host a CoD type CooP on the channel map, I didn't know it had been fixed by 1C Team.




All we ask for is a CooP interface like the IL2 1946 one so we can host our CooPs as we always have, we dont want powerful scripting to make a CooP we don't need it.

Most CooP hosts make missions that last 30-40 mins lots of action and variation of target types.
I can host 4 missions an hour with every one exactly where they should be at the same time putting the mission historically/hysterically (which ever applies),
without flying for hours looking for something to shoot at.

CooP has its place in CoD just as much as the current Moving Dogfight Servers that are on Steam.


.

It was really not a smart move on the part of MG not to include a standard CO-OP and extensive documentation on how scripting could evolve your experience beyond the standard CO-OP...this would have allowed a comfortable level of familiarity and playability while allowing people to explore the new features.

Couple this with HL support from the get go and i think there would be at least 5X more online players than there are now.

It is a bit too early to talk about using the powerful scripting. 1C should have foreseen the very slow evolution of user-made content so they should give us a simple IL2 coop interface to back it up for a first year since release. It is not 2001 anymore and expecting 1C to learn from its mistakes is the right attitude.

It is unclear as a whole if 1C will be albe to provide an online environment that comes with steam. One thing is certain - it needs to resemble the tried out Hyperlobby system Jiri Footjasek gave us. I don`t mean the same 100% - I mean in general way - for hosts to be able to make quick missions, for players to be able to jump in slots and choose their ride, for squads to be able to gather up, choose thier tactics.

I myself see nothing wrong with the new system other than it seems too futuristic.
And Droz, I know what you mean dude. It would be wonderfull to have say a dedicated server that for example simulates an entire theater of operations in real time, dynamically. So the AI trains and convoys go their way, resources are transported to their destiny on a destined path, tank and bomber units are making their way on an offensive run. At the same time, players would just jump in a such world, performing organized or unorganized CAS/patrol/Jabo/bomber flights from aerodromes positioned on their historical spots on the map of the theater of operations. Squads would make their coordinated flights with others, return to AFs. At this point players would exit the server, gather up, check the tactical map and make more sorties. Or just land, refuel and go back to battle.

Now given the current CloD stance, do you see that happening any time soon? I don`t and that is why I want old style coops.

Well, not all partols were full of engagements and action. Some of them were just AF - point A - AF flights. Some were reconaissance flights. Often nothing happened. I don`t mind that. In online wars there was always a good few % of general number of sorties like that.

Yep carguy, i remember a fair few VEF missions like that, didnt take away from the immersion or fun though.

We know that there were sorties flown that had no action.. But just try to have a look at it this way.

When you watch a movie.. Any movie.

When an actor has to travel from point A, to point B, the movie does not follow the actor's every move. Instead, you see buddy jump into his car, drive around the corner, and the next scene is buddy arriving at said destination. Otherwise, our movies would be 5 hours long and well, I don't need to say more.

In the coops that we speak of, we are talking about getting rid of that "wasted" time. Maybe not wasted to you, but to some (alot that I hung out with), we enjoyed that quick action and got more "bang for our buck" in one evening. Another thing is, is when pilots get shot down, they know that within 10min or so, they'll be back with the group again, attempting their organized attack that they've been sent out to do.

Time spent here or there, is more precious to some than others.

Edit* Don't get me wrong. I DO appreciate those flights that you speak of aswell. But it's always nice to have your choice between a nice restaurant and a fast food joint.

It doesn't take anything but the current ability to play a 'coop'.

The ONLY difference between a dogfight and coop mission in IL2 was the ability to multicrew an aircraft. The inability to have moving columns and AI aircraft is a nonissue as with mods, in IL2, you can have moving columns and AI aircraft in a dogfight server.

What in CLoD keeps you from having a Multiplayer Coop experience as you had in IL2? I just don't understand. Everything I have ever done with Coop mission in IL2 I can do with CLoD, and even more. If anything, CLoD is more powerful than any coop mission could ever think of being in IL2.

Again, thinking there is no 'coop' mode in this game is extremely short sighted.

@carguy. It is possible, entirely possible. This game releases an eventlog with every mission, iirc. Like every 'coop' from IL2, the server ends. You then would upload the eventlog to a parser and it updates, like in SEOW or something like that. The same thing here. I just don't see the difference.

I'm going to take Ghost Skies as an example. We play missions for 1.5 hours. 100's of units move throughout the mission, we have mission objectives for each side, and then the server ends at 90 minute mark. MUCH like a coop. Coop missions are usually over when the hosting player is done. It creates an eventlog with everything that happened during the mission. Ghost Skies uses the 'dogfight' server so we have the ability to have up to 100 players instead of the 32 that it's limited to with coop (or 64, can't remember). I just don't see the difference really.

I'll never understand why developers shoot themselves in the foot. Don't try to fix something that isn't broken is all I'll say. I just expected this to be like IL2 as far as coop went and I feel they have really made a big mistake with this one. All I ever wanted out of the game was better graphics and damage models.. Can someone tell me if that is a lot to ask when you consider we have the hardware support such things?

Don't worry there will be plenty of COOP type servers in time. The patch should make it possible for everyone to fly the sim on or offline. Once that happens people will start making COOP type missions, and eventually Online Wars. It took a few years before we had any ongoing online wars in the original series so it takes time. Some people can make them now, but there isn't enough documentation yet for everyone needs, and I assume some bugs. The FMB and mission building is basicly the same as the old version, but with alot more capability that still needs to get documented and sorted. There were no mistakes made, the sim was just released unfinished. Some would say that was the big mistake, but I think the alternative was a cancelled sim.

I feel the same. I thought that with il-2 as basically a 10-year prototype/dry-run for how to build the ultimate flight-sim, COD would simply build on the many good features while adding exciting new elements.

Instead they seem to have felt the need to reinvent the wheel in a lot of cases. :confused: To be fair, a lot of the GUI issues seem to be down to it being a real rush-job, cobble something together quick, we've got to release a year early effort. Even they hate it - Luthier as good as said so.

The positive point is that the GUI is being redone for the sequel. So I think NOW is the time to really put the pressure on and make sure that the devs build in a suitable interface for co-op use.

We dont want just COOP servers we want to able to play a COOP from someones PC, for squad training, we want to be able to choose whatever plane we wish to fly and the ones we dont choose are AI controlled, we then want to be able to see the mission results and then have the option to refly or load another COOP mission.

I am sure that there will be a coop interface in BoM since they are taking the time to re-do the whole GUI, by now they've heard the complaints so many times from so many people that they'd have to be both blind and deaf if they don't include it. Luthier has said in a Q&A that he sees no need for change with regards to coop interface, this was last year though but the fact is, a lot of people that have paid and are playing this game see the need for it. You have to cater to your audience, it's not about what luthier finds functional in the sim, he's not the only customer is he? It's not just a "vocal minority" about this issue, you see people that have been registered for a long time but only made a few posts speak up, some people even register just to say that they want yarn "old" coop interface.

This takes nothing away from all the marvelous new features in CloD, the people who praise these new fantastic scripting features are welcome to use them as much as they like and enjoy, I don't care but don't protest or try to discourage us who actually want a coop GUI. Go enjoy all the great things you are talking about, let us, who want an "old fashioned" coop interface campaign for it in peace. This imposing of things I don't really care about from some people is really starting to irritate by now, had to say it.

Agree, I think that is a GUI problem more than other thing.

I've no issue with people wanting to campaign for a specific coop style interface in the game, but to say the game has no coop functionality is extremely short sighted.

It's not short sighted, it's wrong, plain and simple.

Yes you can work round it and run a COOP but its not working for the majority of people, you can see that by the number of COOP's your able to see and join.

None.

Because people are unwilling to make a paradigm shift in their thinking and get with the times.

It is always the machine, not the man!
:D :D :D :D :D

All we need Dano is the front and back end. We still want the bells and whistles of the new system, we just need a more user friendly and intuitive GUI to get it working for the majority of people who want to play COOP's.

We want to add to CLOD not take anything away.

More people playing CLOD is a good thing right?

***Edit.. looks like Furbs beat me to it as I was typing***


Let me quote the author of the first post to refresh our memories a little..

"coop like in IL2"

This may need some clarification so that we don't have people bickering back and forward, and so that I dont' waste anymore time building a template for missions if I don't have to be. So, perhaps someone can fill in the blanks here, (as I can't fly online yet and can't speak first hand).

Can we fly together as a group? ...Yes.

Can we be gathering at a specific location with some sort of "chat" communication before the launch of the game? ...Yes (if at the hyperlobby)

Can we launch into the game and be in the "ready room" with a map, aircraft/loadout selection, and some sort of "chat" communication (to discuss the group's strategy), before we're launched into our planes? ..._________

Do we all launch at the same time? ...______

Can we have a "Dead is Dead" mission? ...________

When the mission is over, can those that have either played, or waited and watched the mission play through (after dieing), see the results (ie, kills, bomb target totals, friendly kill penalties,damaged landing penalties)? ..._________


The reason I ask this is because, if all of the blanks filled, above are "Yes", then this is what "coop was like in IL2". ...Question answered..

Nevermind all of the other benefits, bells and whistles that are available. I'm sure everyone of us knows we will benefits from triggers and scripts.. But that's not what we were originally asked in this post. WHAT we do not have, that we had previously in IL2 from my above questions, is what should be being discussed here. Or am I wrong?

Use the bug tracker to vote this feature in, Luthier and team are looking closely at the reports made on the tracker.

Register > check e-mail> sign in.

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/account/register

Click the green up arrow > vote done.

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/51

This is exactly what I want to be able to do and I don't see an argument against it. I mean, why wouldn't anyone want this feature adding? I do hope it's like someone said that the game was rush out and it will be in the next release.

+1

For several months after release I had an opinion that coop is not needed because C# scripting allows to create absolutely same experience within CloD standard MP mode. I.e. group coop flights with briefing, debriefing and pre-defined objectives and equal opposition.

I changed my mind because only 2 people (Banks @1С forum and Small_Bee @sukhoi.ru) are working on serious MP projects that can bring this possibility to reality. With so few people involved it will take too much time (13 months up till now) to implement what can be quickly done with original IL-2 coop mode. This is the reason I fully support bringing il-2 coop gui back to CloD now.

Please register and vote for this issue here http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/51

(OT. Sound radar is a nasty bug too http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/154 )

Thanks Ataros, ive already voted on the bug tracker. I hope we get Luthier's attention.

Adding a "+1" in this post isn't going to do anything..
Go vote at the bugtracker, and add your +1.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...2&postcount=50

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most of these already available?
Can someone run a server now from their own PC?
Can you choose the aircraft you want to fly, if its available in the mission?
Can AI fly aircraft now in online missions?
Can you refly or load another mission?
Can you start the mission when everyone is ready, when indicated by the Chat or Comms.
Isn't hyperlobby available to meet before the mission?
Can the server set a password so only squad members can join?

I see nothing to stop a squad from practicing a number of different types of missions, but I do see the need for documentation and GUI changes to make it easier to implement, and see no reason that won't be implemented at some point.

Not sure but didn't I read recently that they were rewriting the GUI that may be available by the Sequel, and therefore would overwrite the one in COD.

I'm not aware of all the problems Coop users are having, but I think now that more people will be able to fly the sim, the developers fixing script bugs, releasing documentation, rebuilding the GUI, mission Triggers, and other options in the FMB will make COOP's and progressive online wars far superior to anything we ever had in the original series.

The simple answer to your questions are no, you cant do that.

Yes, you can do that.

That's incorrect. I can do all of that.

Just shoot me now.

"yes it does", "no it doesn't", "yes it does", "no it doesn't".
So much for getting a straight answer these days.

Can someone ring a bell really loud when the patch comes out please.
I don't dare open another single post here at the forum.

Tell you what Chivas, lets try it.
Join our TS and you try and run a COOP with a few of us, lets organize a time and run a few training COOP's.

You make a simple training COOP with say a 8 vs 8, 109s and spits meeting at 12k feet over the channel and run it on your PC and we will join and test.

Deal?

Yep, lets do it. you make the COOP map chivas and we will bring the pilots, in the old IL2 you could make a COOP map for 8v8 in about 2 mins. Let us know when you have the COOP map ready and we will sort out a time to do it.



In fact lets extend this challenge to everyone....

Are workarounds for known bugs* allowed? I would even extend the challenge: You provide the single player mission and I will host it without a change as a coop mission on a dedicated server.

*like AI doesn't recognize the takeoff of a human controlled aircraft in their group unless autopilot is engaged for a seconds after or during takeoff

Thanks Banks we can try it but doesn't that prove our point?

I rephrased my sentence :)

Hmmm, but it should be easy for anyone to set up right?
Chivas should be able to make and run his own mission, if he cant again it proves our point that we need a better front and back end for COOP's

Though i would still like to go through it with you Banks, just to see how it is set up.

Where are you located? so we can work out a suitable time to try it.

I live in Germany. How about 20.00 UTC/GMT (should be 22.00 local for me and 21.00 for UK)?

However I'd sugguest to wait for the beta patch. I expect that some annoying workarounds are no longer necessary with it. I mean it's not about proving someone was right/wrong but about providing a good experience, isn't it?

We can then figure out what is missing in my solution and what should be changed. Let's face it: We won't get the old coop interface in the near future.

Ok good idea, maybe sometime next weekend if we get the patch this week?

I never disputed that did I.

I don't fly Coops, that why my post was phrased with questions not answers. I posed some questions and Tree insinuated that it was not possible, but I expected that.

I'm still not sure why the ATAG group can start a server to fly around the map interacting with humans and AI while Coop'ers can't.

I agree that there are problems, but surely there is enough functionality (performance issues aside) to practice your squads until the developers tweak and fine tune the GUI to better suit your needs.

Roger.

I dont get what your saying Dano, even Banks says there are bugs and workaround needed to get a COOP working, were asking for these bugs to be fixed and a better system to make use of CLOD's undoubted powerful FMB.

I can't see what milage there is in arguing the point on this one. A very successful and widely used feature of CoD's predecessor was not included in the game.

Coops were a big part of our squads IL2 useage and although I didn't fly them myself online wars were very popular in the IL2 community too. Although there are other factors I'm sure the ommision of coops has had a big part to play in why our squad has not flown CoD together once. I'm thinking its a reasonable assumption that the only chance of having features like this included will be in a sequel.

Thank you for your offer. It may be very useful to get community start flying coops. With current system some small training may be required to get it started. (As well as testing to sort out possible bugs).

Because you are trying to read more into what I have said than I have actually said. All I stated was that coops do exist, but in a different format to what we previously had, as I have stated before, until people actually realise the benefits and shift their thinking we will continue to have people insist that they don't exist and stating they do not exist is untrue, the old style launch no longer exists, but that does not in anyway stop people from running coops.

Tell me, why the need for a button to launch everyone at the same time instead of being able to sit around in TS and say "Time to go gents!", what is the difference? The only real issue I see from it is it will highlight those arrogant pilots who think it is ok to hold the other 31 players up because they need to go get another beer.

Dano, did you not read what Banks wrote?

There are bugs and workarounds needed to get the current system working.
We want those fixed.
How many COOP's have you made,ran or joined via the MP system we have now Dano or even seen being ran?

Maybe you should join us for the test, your welcome to join our TS.

Yes...

So your willing to join the test?
Why do you think Banks wants to wait until the patch before the test?

have a look at this poll Dano...
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28429

All these people are wrong?

Banks(or Chivas), for the test i suggest making a standard BOB mission for the COOP, something that would normally be used for squad training...

8 spits intercepting 12 bombers over the coast at 15k feet height with 8 109s escorting, air start with about 5 mins to contact...give the spits about 2k feet in height advantage.

What you think?

I think you are purposefully attempting to draw me into an argument by deliberately misunderstanding me.

Im not Dano honest, this is how you come across to me, if im wrong then pls explain what im missing.

You seem to think the COOP system we have now is fine and there is nothing wrong with it, and would not benefit from the front and backend being like IL2's COOP system for ease of use.

You seem to think the problem lies with us and not the game.

Now correct me if im wrong.

We dont want an argument Dano, we just simply want COOP's to work, if someone shows us how to make them work in the current format then i'm happy to apologise, myself and Furby have tried many many times to get a simple COOP working but its not possible, the last thing we want is people saying its all fine when they have never tried to make a COOp mission, this gives Luthier the impression its all working when it isn't. As banks as already said, there is no right or wrong we just want to get it working or know how to make it work. In the old Il2 I could setup a COOP in a matter of minutes this is simply not possible in CLOD unless i am doing something completely wrong, but from what many people are saying this is not the case. So I ask you politely to try it for yourself or come and join us on our TS, you will be made welcome and you will find us to be friendly and accomadating. S!

I put down my proposal to ATAG guys to add more COOP-style gameplay to their excellent server. It does not replace dogfight but can be added on top of it.

Please support me there if you like the idea. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...postcount=1583

In case ATAG team likes it too I hope Banks, Kodiak and other C# gurus may help them to make it happen with advice or sample scripts.

The proposal is not meant to replace the COOP GUI that is missing from CloD unfortunately.

Chivas, the only thing you and people like you (not flying coops) need to understand that a coop is a game mode of its own. You do not need to ask us why we need a mode where :
- 16 players start exactly at the same time,
- dead/downed players cannot return to the mission until it is over,
- there are one or two objectives which deliberately lure all (half) of those players into one (two) spot on the map.

It proved to be a great concept that gained much popularity over the years and it evolved into giving IL2 another meaning altoghether as a video game.

It is a bit different from DM servers in theory, in practice it makes IL2 a whole different game. Coop`ers would like to have it in CloD or a close substitute of it. Main ponts of a coop mission have already been added in this topic earlier by some of the more constructive users.

That's perfect Chivas, now imagine your a new user to CLOD but a long term user of IL2, you used to make and fly COOP's with a couple of friends for years and had loads of fun.

So go ahead and try to make a COOP and i will pretend :) im your friend and then join Tree and myself on TS and we will try and have some fun.

Once you have tried that then you will understand where we are coming from.

Dano, same to you.

How anyone can speak against this request is utterly beyond me.

I have no interest in offline play apart to get a quick kill fix when I am too busy to fly, I have little interest in AI and many other things but I fully support those who feel they need such fixes in order to enjoy their own method of play.

The way COOP worked in IL2 was perfect especially for online wars or squad versus squad battles. I feel it is vital to CLOD to have this implemented.

What has been done by some of the server guys (i.e. ATAG) is great work but it is not a CO-OP.

Even when the patch comes I will probably fire the game up for a week or two but it wont be long before it gets shelved again. Like me many others simply don't get the same enjoyment from a dogfight server as they do from a COOP.

It's not what you are missing, it's what you are adding that it the problem.

Where, and please quote me, have I said it is fine? I haven't. All I have stated is that coops are possible and that people need to adjust their thinking as to how they are implemented.

No, the problem lies with both, ie; the users for insisting on an outdated and outmoded coop interface (and please, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it should not be available) and the game for having it's issues.

I'll re-iterate as you seem to be failing to grasp my simple statement. Coops are possible, end of discussion, I make no mention of how buggy they are or that work-arounds are needed because I know. The fact is that they are possible, which was what I originally responded to.

Coops are not possible in the way you could set them up in IL2 Dano, end of, this means that currently there will be no online wars or squad training, you are showing your complete ignorance on the subject and are appearing to look more than a little foolish.

Sigh...

That is a specific style of coop, does that exclude all coop play? No.

Dano that is the 'specific' kind of Co-OP play that everyone wants.

Lets not turn this is to another internet war, it is vital to many many people to have this implemented.

At last! COOP's are bugged and need workarounds, we want them fixed. Glad you agree.

Now if you can vote on the bugtracker please there's a good chap. :)

Please...you can call three players flying in formation in a DF CloD server a coop if you put it like this.

Irrellevant to my comments.

Glad you now agree that coops are possible.

And?

Dano, have you tired to play a COOP?

Scratch this...I am reading your post in the multiplayer now.

And this is my point about a paradigm shift in thinking...

COOP in your definition means old style IL2 launched from hyperlobby where everybody picks a seat and signals ready, then is launched (generally late because someone had to have another beer or go to the loo) by the host and everybody starts at exactly the same time, quickly followed by several restarts because some muppet has his bomb drop button mapped to his PTT key (sorry Oz, had to be said :p).

If you are asking if I have played one of these styles of coop, then yes, plenty of times in old IL2 of course, not once in CloD because it doesn't exist as such and I have already stated this right?

COOP in another definition means playing cooperatively, even if that is just a couple of players flying together to achieve a target, something that can be performed on any dogfight server or hosted locally and played with a limited number of people and that I have played in CloD.

Now obviously the whole argument is about old style IL2 coops and I remind you that I agree that they are not currently possible, so why ask other than to attempt to make me look foolish when you know for a fact that was not what I made my point about?

I'm done with this now, you can continue to attempt to make out that I've said something other than I have but I'll no longer respond.

My stance on this is simple:

1) Coops are possible.
2) Old style IL2 Coops are not possible and should be implemented.

Personally, I'd rather have squadron training on a live server with the chance of some random engagements than the sterile environment we're all used to, the sim just needs some adjustments to make it really work well.

Well I'm not against this request. Although I think the old coop system is not needed, if they add it it's ok.

But arguments like "the old coop system was perfect for online wars" or "without the old coop system there will be no online wars" are simply false. The new system is way better for a realistic online war than the old coop system. So please stop lying to people just to defend an outdated game mode.

Also, right now is perfectly possible to play a coop style mission. Just design the mission like a coop, and fly it like a coop. The GUI is different, yeah, so what?

The only thing you can't do with the current system is start everybody in the air at the same time, every other coop feature is possible right now.

So I don't know, may be the solution could be the ability for the host to start the mission paused and unpause it when everybody is ready, like in DCS. No need of getting the whole old system back.

Yes, thanks for finally pointing that out.

Now if you would please vote on the bugtracker that would make you a swell guy. :D

1. The GUI is the whole point of the problem for scoring and mission status at the end so pilot's can see what they achieved.



2. Except on the main Cliffs of Dover selling point Channel Map, CooP's dont work.


.

Just open the stats after landing and see what you achieved. I see no diference in whatching the score with the mission ended or watching it inside the plane when landed. And yes, right now the destruction of ground units doesn't count, but that's a completely different problem.

And if for mission status you mean victory conditions and such, it's easy to trigger a "blue wins" or "red wins" message when one side achieves its objectives.

What's the problem with other maps?