Official Fulqrum Publishing forum - Dear Luthier, please give us SUPERSAMPLING as an option

Official Fulqrum Publishing forum (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/index.php)

- Performance threads (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=195)

- - Dear Luthier, please give us SUPERSAMPLING as an option (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=23923)

SerpentBlade

06-19-2011 10:39 PM

Dear Luthier, please give us SUPERSAMPLING as an option

for some of us with fast graphic cards, or wishing to upgrade:-P

I can live with lowering the details, but incomplete FSAA would be some eye-sore:shock:

Jaws2002

06-20-2011 01:20 AM

Any kind of anti aliasing would do.:(
The game looks horible without it.:(

Derinahon

06-20-2011 01:45 AM

I'd love to see the resulting performance, even at low settings. 'Please give us working MSAA' is worth asking for however and since you took the trouble to start the thread and it's dead, I don't mind hijacking it for a good cause :-P

Space Communist

06-20-2011 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formula88 (Post 299507)

A modern PC sim released without working AA... Even Falcon 4 has AA and it is ancient. Certainly doesnt inspire confidence in the developers abilities.

It's actually really surprisingly common. GTA4 for instance has no anti-aliasing of any kind. Not that GTA4 is a sim or anything. I just mean games in general.

ZaltysZ

06-20-2011 05:33 AM

Forget usual MSAA. Modern games use deffered rendering and it does not allow correctly working MSAA, that is why lots of modern games struggles with AA.

The solution is to use full scene supersampling AA (which is very hard on resources and usually cuts FPS 2-3 times depending on setting and resolution), or use MLAA or similar shader based AA method, which basically tries to blur edges without knowing anything about geometry (such methods are fast, but they often blur textures too and sometimes causes ghosting and other artifacts).

ZaltysZ

06-20-2011 06:13 AM

Console games and their ports usually use MLAA or something similar. Mainly because MLAA affects performance less and it works with deffered rendering.

It seems ATI allows to force MLAA on 6xxx already (earlier cards need hacks). NVIDIA also has analogical feature called FXAA, but currently only for OpenGL. Those features should allow forcing AA on any game, but of course results will vary.

robtek

06-20-2011 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formula88 (Post 299541)

Every game I own uses AA except this one, even the console ports. Say what you will but there is no excuse not to have working AA in any modern PC game, save for laziness or ineptness. Given the rushed release( you cant really blame ubi, 5 years of development is at least 3 more than any other game has gotten since 2005) it may just be they didnt have time to implement it. I hope it is possible to have it otherwise its going to go from the shelf to the garbage can in short order. If the upcoming World of Planes holds true to being a simulation and not an arcade game then I fear that this franchise wont survive no matter what happens. The concept is just to brilliant and barring any major failures stands to be a great success. Il-2 on the other hand seems to be a beta tester training simulation.

If one has no education, say in graphics-programming, but a opinion he/she should choose to be quiet instead of denouncing people who alrady have done work for us and continue doing it.
By being quiet one at least leaves a doubt of being less intelligent.
But then the following comparision removed that doubt.

Tree_UK

06-20-2011 07:29 AM

Your well out of line mate, you imply/threaten violence in a lot of your posts.

David198502

06-20-2011 08:00 AM

waoh!!i study this forum now for almost 2years and almost every day......but the last few weeks it turned into a battle field of really rude insults.

TonyD

06-20-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formula88 (Post 299541)

Every game I own uses AA except this one, even the console ports. ...

I think a lot of modern games are not that modern, being mostly console ports and therefore being DirectX 9 based which is more AA friendly. Tom’s did an article recently on the subject (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...deon,2868.html), but it doesn’t really clarify the matter any further, apart from confirming that AA is very difficult to implement with modern shader routines.

I tried ‘Morphological Anti-aliasing’ with CloD, but found little improvement in visuals, degradation of on-screen text clarity (including instruments) and a massive frame rate hit :( HD58XX users can also force this in the driver from version 11.3, I think, but it’s not much of a solution.

Pity really, as I also find that it detracts from the excellent graphic detail.

LoBiSoMeM

06-20-2011 10:42 AM

I play Resident Evil 5 in Dx10 and AA works nice.

Any other "insights"? I'm "stupid" too?

skouras

06-20-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David198502 (Post 299562)

waoh!!i study this forum now for almost 2years and almost every day......but the last few weeks it turned into a battle field of really rude insults.

agreed:confused:

Ze-Jamz

06-20-2011 11:09 AM

Ok, can someone en lighting me on this AA business.. i understand that the AA smooths out the edges (jaggies) but i dont have these or am i missing something?

And what does the supersampling part do?

Armatian

06-20-2011 11:14 AM

You can't compare engines because of year released. Graphic engines are a work of art and science, and lots of complex maths. It amazes me how people feel free to imply this dev or others aren't good at this or that.
I'm sure devs also want a crisp image with smooth edges.
Even dx9 with hdr makes aa more difficult, and i remember dx10 gave lots of trouble too, since some edges didn't get antialiased in some engines ( remember assassin's creed dx10.1 far better aa vs dx10 )
Supersampling this engines that uses hdr, ssao and huge amount of video ram, doesn't seem viable to me, every feature by itself eats memory, and more important, lots of bandwidth.

ZaltysZ

06-20-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz (Post 299636)

Ok, can someone en lighting me on this AA business.. i understand that the AA smooths out the edges (jaggies) but i dont have these or am i missing something?

Screenshots or it didn't happen. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz (Post 299636)

And what does the supersampling part do?

Supersampling averages colors of subpixels to get color of final pixel. Subpixels are created by rendering image in higher resolution than final image (i.e. 4 pixels for 1 pixel in final image). This gives best quality, but worst performance.

Ze-Jamz

06-20-2011 11:56 AM

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/54...6CBF07F7EE9AA/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/54...6CBF07F7EE9AA/

SNAFU

06-20-2011 12:21 PM

Sorry for OT

Quote:

Originally Posted by David198502 (Post 299562)

waoh!!i study this forum now for almost 2years and almost every day......but the last few weeks it turned into a battle field of really rude insults.

And the "ignore list" grows and grows, so it is getting harder and harder to understand the discussions, but I guess then I don´t need to... :cool:

JumpingHubert

06-20-2011 12:28 PM

@Ze-Jamz
some parts of own cockpit have working AA. Thats right. And the rest of the game, ground for example, external view of planes......hmm? Yes, in near distance with full hdresultion with 2xAA this game looks partly well antialiased.......I have 1680x1050 on 22" and it DOESN´T looks well antialiased in most situations..

Its like a running gag in this forum that no developer or moderator said only ONE WORD about this issue since release.....

Blackdog_kt

06-20-2011 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armatian (Post 299637)

I'll go ahead and agree with this. I remember other titles too having trouble with AA when certain effects where enabled and it used to be a case of either one or the other, but not both enabled simultaneously.

Extreme_One

06-20-2011 06:44 PM

Not sure if the CloD engine uses deferred shading but many games that do suffer from poor or no anti-aliasing.

Quote:

Another rather important disadvantage is that, due to separating the lighting stage from the geometric stage, hardware anti-aliasing does not produce correct results any more: although the first pass used when rendering the basic properties (diffuse, normal etc.) can use anti-aliasing, it's not until full lighting has been applied that anti-alias is needed. One of the usual techniques to overcome this limitation is using edge detection on the final image and then applying blur over the edges.

JumpingHubert

08-04-2011 01:09 PM

i hope Cod supports the new nvidia FXAA: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=123121

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